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Bleach Discussion Thread V2

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    Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
    Except that the final strike should've been as inevitable to fail as the ones leading up to it.
    That's the whole point of the final strike: that Ichigo escapes the clutches of inevitability. That's what Yhwach represents.

    A series of events occured in order for Ichigo to achieve that. The anime just needs to make them more apparent for the casual viewer to understand.

    Comment


      Originally posted by One of Them View Post
      That's the whole point of the final strike: that Ichigo escapes the clutches of inevitability. That's what Yhwach represents.

      A series of events occured in order for Ichigo to achieve that. The anime just needs to make them more apparent for the casual viewer to understand.
      Oh, the ending being contradictory by design is too big brain for us? Lol.

      The obvious problem is that, as an inevitability, how the fuck did Ywach lose? Either it was inevitable, which is what Kubo wanted, or he's able to be defeated, which is what happened.
      Last edited by OrganizationXV; March 24th, 2020, 04:36 PM.
      Originally posted by Wade
      Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

      Comment


        Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
        Oh, the ending being contradictory by design is too big brain for us? Lol.
        Casual =/= dumb
        You're just not as dedicated

        Comment


          Originally posted by One of Them View Post
          Casual =/= dumb
          You're just not as dedicated
          Okay, enlighten me then. Why did Ywach let himself get hit by the arrowhead that made him lose his powers? Why didn't he ever notice that glaring hole in his omniscience, and why would he trust Uryu with all that power, when he knows for a fact that he'll be betrayed?
          Originally posted by Wade
          Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

          Comment


            Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
            Okay, enlighten me then. Why did Ywach let himself get hit by the arrowhead that made him lose his powers?
            Because he didn't know of such a thing or that it was coming.

            Why didn't he ever notice that glaring hole in his omniscience,
            If he could notice, it wouldn't be a hole.

            and why would he trust Uryu with all that power, when he knows for a fact that he'll be betrayed?
            But it was Haschwalth's betrayal that he didn't see coming, not Uryu's.

            Comment


              Originally posted by One of Them View Post
              Because he didn't know of such a thing or that it was coming.

              If he could notice, it wouldn't be a hole.

              But it was Haschwalth's betrayal that he didn't see coming, not Uryu's.
              The depth of Ywach's ability to see into all pasts, presents, and futures means that he had to have known that it was coming. He would've noticed his inability to see any future past that moment, based on how much he relied on that ability. And regardless of whose betrayal it was, he should've been able to see it coming. Based on the limits of his powers, this all should've been predicted as easily as everything that happened before.
              Originally posted by Wade
              Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

              Comment


                Originally posted by blah View Post

                Nimaya beat like 4 of em alone but course that didn't mean shit. The royal guards were fucked from the start, they couldn't accomplish anything of significance because the main cast needs to do it. those chapters were mainly used to beef up the main cast, not build up the royal guard
                Yeah it's called bad writing. You don't introduce a new faction of super badasses then have that factions role reduced to being a glorified Planet Fitness membership for the OG cast.


                Imagine thinking the zangetsu Yhwach reveal was garbage lmao.
                No need to imagine, the Ichigo being a Quincy garbage is widely considered to be a meme. The only good thing about that stupid reveal was that it lead to "EVERYTHING BUT THE RAIN" which was some of Kubo's better writing.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
                  The depth of Ywach's ability to see into all pasts, presents, and futures means that he had to have known that it was coming. He would've noticed his inability to see any future past that moment, based on how much he relied on that ability. And regardless of whose betrayal it was, he should've been able to see it coming. Based on the limits of his powers, this all should've been predicted as easily as everything that happened before.
                  Yhwach only sees all the possible futures from the moment he activates Almighty. He doesn't see all of time. The only time Yhwach noticed that his Almighty could fail was with Mimihagi/The Soul King, and because they have The Almighty themselves. It was Haschwalth that realized that Uryu could evade Almighty's sight when Haschwalth was using it himself. Yhwach never knew.
                  And Aizen could alter what futures Yhwach saw, or the changes that he wanted to see take place, because Aizen performed the hypnosis, which seemingly lasts forever, before Yhwach had Almighty.

                  It was also Haschwalth that isolated one of the futures in which Ichigo wins while in possession of Almighty, such that it remained intact every time that Yhwach decided to rewrite them.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
                    Oh, the ending being contradictory by design is too big brain for us? Lol.

                    The obvious problem is that, as an inevitability, how the fuck did Ywach lose? Either it was inevitable, which is what Kubo wanted, or he's able to be defeated, which is what happened.
                    The funny thing is as bad as that was it wasn't even the dumbest death in the arc, that honor goes to Gremmy "I can't imagine being as awesome as Kenpachi" Thoumeaux. The best part was all the people who predicted that was how that idiot would kill himself the second they saw his broken powers. This is the problem with trying to delve into these deep philosophical concepts when doing shit like writing battle manga, it just doesn't work. Stick with people shooting fire out of their hands and laser beams, leave the omnipotence, omniscience to other genres.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by EnemyOfDaState View Post

                      The funny thing is as bad as that was it wasn't even the dumbest death in the arc, that honor goes to Gremmy "I can't imagine being as awesome as Kenpachi" Thoumeaux. The best part was all the people who predicted that was how that idiot would kill himself the second they saw his broken powers. This is the problem with trying to delve into these deep philosophical concepts when doing shit like writing battle manga, it just doesn't work. Stick with people shooting fire out of their hands and laser beams, leave the omnipotence, omniscience to other genres.
                      I don't think you have the right idea about what happened to Gremmy. Gremmy admitted loss purely out of pride. His wording might make it a little bit confusing because he uses the word "imagine" in different contexts.

                      Gremmy didn't even die to begin with. He's just a brain in a jar. What he did was undo his powers of imagination. He approppriately used the word "imagined", but he meant to say that he did not expect Kenpachi's body to be a requisite for harboring the amount of power to be replicated(which we see even Kenpachi's body can't handle, mind you).

                      Gremmy can do anything he wants with a thought. He doesn't have any ambition and his motivations are unaligned with the Sternritters'. The reason he fought "clean" against Kenpachi is because this one was the only opponent to be unafraid of his ability.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by One of Them View Post

                        I don't think you have the right idea about what happened to Gremmy. Gremmy admitted loss purely out of pride. His wording might make it a little bit confusing because he uses the word "imagine" in different contexts.

                        Gremmy didn't even die to begin with. He's just a brain in a jar. What he did was undo his powers of imagination. He approppriately used the word "imagined", but he meant to say that he did not expect Kenpachi's body to be a requisite for harboring the amount of power to be replicated(which we see even Kenpachi's body can't handle, mind you).

                        Gremmy can do anything he wants with a thought. He doesn't have any ambition and his motivations are unaligned with the Sternritters'. The reason he fought "clean" against Kenpachi is because this one was the only opponent to be unafraid of his ability.
                        The way you phrase that, it implies that Gremmy gave Kenpachi permission to kill him. I very distinctly remember him looking absolutely terrified.
                        Originally posted by Wade
                        Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by One of Them View Post

                          I don't think you have the right idea about what happened to Gremmy. Gremmy admitted loss purely out of pride. His wording might make it a little bit confusing because he uses the word "imagine" in different contexts.

                          Gremmy didn't even die to begin with. He's just a brain in a jar. What he did was undo his powers of imagination. He approppriately used the word "imagined", but he meant to say that he did not expect Kenpachi's body to be a requisite for harboring the amount of power to be replicated(which we see even Kenpachi's body can't handle, mind you).

                          Gremmy can do anything he wants with a thought. He doesn't have any ambition and his motivations are unaligned with the Sternritters'. The reason he fought "clean" against Kenpachi is because this one was the only opponent to be unafraid of his ability.



                          No
                          Last edited by EnemyOfDaState; March 24th, 2020, 06:37 PM.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
                            The way you phrase that, it implies that Gremmy gave Kenpachi permission to kill him. I very distinctly remember him looking absolutely terrified.
                            Gremmy killed with a thought. He turned bones into cookies. He erased objects out of existance. But he did not try any of these with Kenpachi because he wanted to fight "fair."

                            That doesn't imply that he wanted Kenpachi to kill him. And Kenpachi never did kill him. The body was an avatar.

                            Originally posted by EnemyOfDaState View Post
                            What does this prove?
                            Last edited by One of Them; March 24th, 2020, 07:14 PM.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by EnemyOfDaState View Post

                              Yeah it's called bad writing. You don't introduce a new faction of super badasses then have that factions role reduced to being a glorified Planet Fitness membership for the OG cast.
                              It was either he spent the little time he had with characters we know or the squad zero. I'd rather he makes them irrelevant then waste time with their fights and make the ending even more rushed


                              No need to imagine, the Ichigo being a Quincy garbage is widely considered to be a meme. The only good thing about that stupid reveal was that it lead to "EVERYTHING BUT THE RAIN" which was some of Kubo's better writing.
                              You just said it was garbage without saying why lmao. I remember most people being ok to hyped about it. But the pay off of "EVERYTHING BUT THE RAIN" was the Zangetsu/Ywach reveal??????

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by blah View Post
                                It was either he spent the little time he had with characters we know or the squad zero. I'd rather he makes them irrelevant then waste time with their fights and make the ending even more rushed
                                The only correct choice is to leave the OG cast bodied because they are too weak for this fight. He pretty much used zero squad to shit on the consequences he created at the start of the arc then got rid of them. As far as bad plot devices go that is just under the Dragon Balls and Pain's stupid rebirth jutsu, at that point he might as well just had Urahara science their injuries away and skipped the zero squad entirely.

                                You just said it was garbage without saying why lmao. I remember most people being ok to hyped about it. But the pay off of "EVERYTHING BUT THE RAIN" was the Zangetsu/Ywach reveal??
                                The why is obvious, outside of the fact that it was predictable because we already found out he was a SR in the SS arc and we found out he had Hollow powers in the HM arc and we found out he could use his Hollow powers to become a FB in the Fullbringer arc. It was an arc that should have focused more on Uryuu and his father as the last Quincy, instead Ichigo is a Quincy too so the supporting cast can be even less unique or relevant. As far as "EVERYTHING BUT THE RAIN" the actual writing and tone were really good, the fact that it was in service to some dumb shit is besides the point.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by EnemyOfDaState View Post

                                  The only correct choice is to leave the OG cast bodied because they are too weak for this fight. He pretty much used zero squad to shit on the consequences he created at the start of the arc then got rid of them. As far as bad plot devices go that is just under the Dragon Balls and Pain's stupid rebirth jutsu, at that point he might as well just had Urahara science their injuries away and skipped the zero squad entirely.
                                  The zero division beating the main antagonists of the final arc could never happen. Kubo making the main cast irrelevant would be a terrible idea. They all needed a power up and the zero squad was there. My idea would be to establish the zero squad before the arc even begins so that you don't put yourself in a lose-lose situation. Using Urahara to get the same results would be an even shittier plot device. Let's not fix bad writing with even worse writing.



                                  The why is obvious, outside of the fact that it was predictable because we already found out he was a SR in the SS arc and we found out he had Hollow powers in the HM arc and we found out he could use his Hollow powers to become a FB in the Fullbringer arc. It was an arc that should have focused more on Uryuu and his father as the last Quincy, instead Ichigo is a Quincy too so the supporting cast can be even less unique or relevant. As far as "EVERYTHING BUT THE RAIN" the actual writing and tone were really good, the fact that it was in service to some dumb shit is besides the point.
                                  You are harping on about the ichigo quincy reveal when im not even talking about that lol.

                                  Obvious reveals are not automatically bad reveals, it also led to a reveal no one predicted. Uryu stopped being unique the moment sternritters were revealed. Uryu was irrelevant before the arc. Besides ichigo and Uryu would still be unique if they just used different quincy powers..... Ichigo ended up using NO quincy powers, but thats besides the point. The arc focused on how ichigo become a hybrid of all races aswell as uryu and his dad and all that, people would riot if ichigos origins, his dads fate, Ryuken was never explained lol

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by blah View Post
                                    The zero division beating the main antagonists of the final arc could never happen. Kubo making the main cast irrelevant would be a terrible idea. They all needed a power up and the zero squad was there. My idea would be to establish the zero squad before the arc even begins so that you don't put yourself in a lose-lose situation. Using Urahara to get the same results would be an even shittier plot device. Let's not fix bad writing with even worse writing.

                                    He already made the main cast irrelevant Chad, Oriheme and Uryuu hardly did jack shit the entire arc. There is no worse writing than a day long training session that takes you from not being able to defend yourself to murking fools.

                                    You are harping on about the ichigo quincy reveal when im not even talking about that lol.

                                    Obvious reveals are not automatically bad reveals, it also led to a reveal no one predicted. Uryu stopped being unique the moment sternritters were revealed. Uryu was irrelevant before the arc. Besides ichigo and Uryu would still be unique if they just used different quincy powers..... Ichigo ended up using NO quincy powers, but thats besides the point. The arc focused on how ichigo become a hybrid of all races aswell as uryu and his dad and all that, people would riot if ichigos origins, his dads fate, Ryuken was never explained lol
                                    They are when their only purpose is to make your special snowflake even more special, what did Ichigo being a Quincy actually accomplish in the end he didn't even get any cool powers to make it worth it? This dude was an amalgamation of every species in the series and he still only had one damn move. If this is the thing your story has been building to all series the payoff needs to matter, but plot wise Ichigo being a Quincy didn't matter at all.

                                    Comment


                                      Ichigo being a Quincy draws a direct connection between him and Yhwach. It has almost nothing to do with giving him cool powers.

                                      Actually, if Ichigo wasn't a Quincy, he'd have been slaughtered in the first invasion just because Yhwach would have considered him Shinigami fodder.
                                      Last edited by One of Them; March 25th, 2020, 12:58 PM.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by One of Them View Post
                                        Ichigo being a Quincy draws a direct connection between him and Yhwach. It has almost nothing to do with giving him cool powers.

                                        Actually, if Ichigo wasn't a Quincy, he'd have been slaughtered in the first invasion just because Yhwach would have considered him Shinigami fodder.
                                        To add to this He wouldn't have escaped from Kirge's Jail by himself and he wouldn't have been used to slay the Soul King, There is also the motivation behind Yhwach being the reason to why Masaki died, which is what shaped him into the person he is as someone who wants to protect

                                        Comment


                                          Yeah Ichigo being Quincy made the whole plot of the last arc.

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