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In your opinion what makes a good MC and a Rival for said MC?

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    #21
    Originally posted by Mr.Sunshine View Post

    Is that so?
    I don't think I was present when you introduced such an idea, so may you explain it to me?
    It would give a rather solid impression on what you're going for, and it would make me extremely happy to know just how far you've invested yourself into your work.
    I see.
    I truly hope that it turns out just how you imagined it to be, at the end of the day. ^_^
    Yeah can't find the thread but I got my old rough draft of like a section of one of the chapters and whatnot. The thing is I can draw but I'm one of those guys who can only draw like certain poses and that's about it and I suck at action poses lol So I wanna practice my drawing more before I do anything or I'll just get an artist to make the panels for me....somehow, down the road lol

    My main guy Zero was gonna have the typical Goku persona because he starts real young but as you can see I really don't want that persona wise lol but my story is this in paraphrase:
    There is a planet right next to earth called Gaia where these "anthropomorphic" beasts reside at in which humans call them Savages. However on earth there are certain humans with super powers in which they are called Abnormal deemed by a corporation called the Gaia Watch Corp, which is made by the president to govern any abnormal and make sure there are no refugee savages or abnormal hiding or trying to do harm on earth ect ect. But alas there is corruption in said corporation leaving some cities like a poor environment. Meanwhile there are deities called Divine Beings that watch and govern over the universe which will play a part for the Main character and the story overall.

    Zero is an orphan, raised by his widowed adoptive "father" and two other adoptive siblings(Whose names I can't decide on). The brother is the same age as Zero while the sister is the oldest, they both care deeply for their adopted little brother and will protect him at all costs due to Zero seemingly being an abnormal but there is more to it. The sister has like a brash up front tomboyish personality while the brother is quite smart and relies on gadgets but is like a laid back dude.

    Back to savages, they have a system of where they have squads meant to set out find resources to help Gaia, Zero is actually a squad leader for one these teams, he meets his squad Cheetara(Cheetah chick who kind of mother him for certain reasons), Hawkins(Hawk-like and the "goofball" of the squad), Falco(Falcon-like older brother of Hawkins and the "cool guy"), Greko(Eh I mean I gotta work on the name lol Gecko-like sword wielder but refuses to unsheathe his blade no matter what for certain reasons), and Phantez(Elephant-like eldest of the squad and wisest, very close to the leader for certain reasons)

    Basically some of what I wanna do down the road.
    I am the ultimate insanity!! I AM CARNAGE!!

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by Doctor. View Post

      is there never not a time when you don't ever have my cock on your mind?
      Is there something going on here ;)

      I am the ultimate insanity!! I AM CARNAGE!!

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by jonnty7 View Post
        Yeah can't find the thread but I got my old rough draft of like a section of one of the chapters and whatnot. The thing is I can draw but I'm one of those guys who can only draw like certain poses and that's about it and I suck at action poses lol So I wanna practice my drawing more before I do anything or I'll just get an artist to make the panels for me....somehow, down the road lol


        My main guy Zero was gonna have the typical Goku persona because he starts real young but as you can see I really don't want that persona wise lol but my story is this in paraphrase:
        There is a planet right next to earth called Gaia where these "anthropomorphic" beasts reside at in which humans call them Savages. However on earth there are certain humans with super powers in which they are called Abnormal deemed by a corporation called the Gaia Watch Corp, which is made by the president to govern any abnormal and make sure there are no refugee savages or abnormal hiding or trying to do harm on earth ect ect. But alas there is corruption in said corporation leaving some cities like a poor environment. Meanwhile there are deities called Divine Beings that watch and govern over the universe which will play a part for the Main character and the story overall.

        Zero is an orphan, raised by his widowed adoptive "father" and two other adoptive siblings(Whose names I can't decide on). The brother is the same age as Zero while the sister is the oldest, they both care deeply for their adopted little brother and will protect him at all costs due to Zero seemingly being an abnormal but there is more to it. The sister has like a brash up front tomboyish personality while the brother is quite smart and relies on gadgets but is like a laid back dude.

        Back to savages, they have a system of where they have squads meant to set out find resources to help Gaia, Zero is actually a squad leader for one these teams, he meets his squad Cheetara(Cheetah chick who kind of mother him for certain reasons), Hawkins(Hawk-like and the "goofball" of the squad), Falco(Falcon-like older brother of Hawkins and the "cool guy"), Greko(Eh I mean I gotta work on the name lol Gecko-like sword wielder but refuses to unsheathe his blade no matter what for certain reasons), and Phantez(Elephant-like eldest of the squad and wisest, very close to the leader for certain reasons)



        Basically some of what I wanna do down the road.
        Hm.
        I truly hope that you aren't bothered or peeved by my rather brash, rude opinion/thoughts on the developing/pre-draft of your work, but I- personally, find it to be too dull, unimaginative, passionless, nonsensical for me to actually approve or even like.
        The premise alone is already reeking of all the things that tire me to pure exhaustion, and it simply filled to the brink with the foreseeable Plot-Holes that are the sizes of Moons.
        If I were writing this piece, I'd have it written as such:

        In the world that our Protagonist lives in, his Earth is proportionally bigger by a scale of 5 in comparison to our world in real life; thusly, its only natural that Humanity has only known and charted insignificant sectors of the world throughout its short-lived History.
        Yet, in the course of its brief History- directly in the decades that followed the Fall of Mivchakel and his dictatorship in the totalitarian state of Inshantviel, an occurrence unprecedented to any Scholar or Child of Man occurred in the shores of Vankeile- a Capital that existed South of Inshantviel.
        An inorganic, fetus-like aberration razed Vankeile and its populace into the very dirt- murdering well over 4-Million People and countless others that simply weren't recorded into the books, and it took the armed forces of Inshantviel and neighboring Republics to subdue and kill such a monstrosity.
        Unable to identify such a aberration, it was titled as: Savage- What Exists Outside Of Reason And Man.
        It wasn't until a century of Industrial/Technological/Medicinal Revolutions and Progressions that humanity was able to conduct tests on such a monstrosity- in order to better understand its genetical make-up and its biology.
        To their horror, it was revealed that Humanity is a lost descendent of a distant branch family of the Savages that simply underwent Evolution and Change- unlike the Savages that remained a mystery in those very days of advancements and discoveries.
        In the current year of 3099- fifty years into the future, an inorganic existence similar to the biological biomass to that of the first identified Savage invades the Republics of Gyantix/Amante-Policvat and Ufanzter, and it leads to such unprecedented causalities that it took four decades to recover from such atrocity.
        At that point, it became a global effort to subjugate and annihilate those referred to as Savage, and in those concentrated efforts- money began to be extorted and exported to the wealthier channels of Authority, and people across the world impoverished without a stutter.
        Our Protagonist- an enlisted Black-Ops Mercenary that operates under amoral morals and ethics, is entrusted the vital mission of charting and positioning areas of resistance against the Savages.
        He isn't alone- he has the backing of ten million armed Veterans and Military Officials of various creeds.
        Thus, our story begins- the war of Humanity against its Progenitors begin.
        Bloodshed will cover the Heavens, and tears will soil a broken body of flesh.


        I could have expanded it a bit more, but that'll be enough for today.
        Nonetheless, while I might not like what I've been presented, this is your work, and your work alone; thusly, you should write from your heart, and I wish for you the best of the best. <3

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by Mr.Sunshine View Post

          Hm.
          I truly hope that you aren't bothered or peeved by my rather brash, rude opinion/thoughts on the developing/pre-draft of your work, but I- personally, find it to be too dull, unimaginative, passionless, nonsensical for me to actually approve or even like.
          The premise alone is already reeking of all the things that tire me to pure exhaustion, and it simply filled to the brink with the foreseeable Plot-Holes that are the sizes of Moons.
          If I were writing this piece, I'd have it written as such:

          In the world that our Protagonist lives in, his Earth is proportionally bigger by a scale of 5 in comparison to our world in real life; thusly, its only natural that Humanity has only known and charted insignificant sectors of the world throughout its short-lived History.
          Yet, in the course of its brief History- directly in the decades that followed the Fall of Mivchakel and his dictatorship in the totalitarian state of Inshantviel, an occurrence unprecedented to any Scholar or Child of Man occurred in the shores of Vankeile- a Capital that existed South of Inshantviel.
          An inorganic, fetus-like aberration razed Vankeile and its populace into the very dirt- murdering well over 4-Million People and countless others that simply weren't recorded into the books, and it took the armed forces of Inshantviel and neighboring Republics to subdue and kill such a monstrosity.
          Unable to identify such a aberration, it was titled as: Savage- What Exists Outside Of Reason And Man.
          It wasn't until a century of Industrial/Technological/Medicinal Revolutions and Progressions that humanity was able to conduct tests on such a monstrosity- in order to better understand its genetical make-up and its biology.
          To their horror, it was revealed that Humanity is a lost descendent of a distant branch family of the Savages that simply underwent Evolution and Change- unlike the Savages that remained a mystery in those very days of advancements and discoveries.
          In the current year of 3099- fifty years into the future, an inorganic existence similar to the biological biomass to that of the first identified Savage invades the Republics of Gyantix/Amante-Policvat and Ufanzter, and it leads to such unprecedented causalities that it took four decades to recover from such atrocity.
          At that point, it became a global effort to subjugate and annihilate those referred to as Savage, and in those concentrated efforts- money began to be extorted and exported to the wealthier channels of Authority, and people across the world impoverished without a stutter.
          Our Protagonist- an enlisted Black-Ops Mercenary that operates under amoral morals and ethics, is entrusted the vital mission of charting and positioning areas of resistance against the Savages.
          He isn't alone- he has the backing of ten million armed Veterans and Military Officials of various creeds.
          Thus, our story begins- the war of Humanity against its Progenitors begin.
          Bloodshed will cover the Heavens, and tears will soil a broken body of flesh.


          I could have expanded it a bit more, but that'll be enough for today.
          Nonetheless, while I might not like what I've been presented, this is your work, and your work alone; thusly, you should write from your heart, and I wish for you the best of the best. <3
          Not at all trust me lol

          Anyway fair enough I'll be taking as many notes anyway from anyone before I get going.

          I am the ultimate insanity!! I AM CARNAGE!!

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by jonnty7 View Post

            Huh, interesting take there. Never heard that b4 tbh.

            Yeah. There are other examples unlikable MCs in anime/manga that still manage to be good characters, but the one I mentioned was one of the first instances I had to ask myself "there's literally nothing likable about him, why do I still consider him a good lead?". You can say he compensated it by being well written, and like everyone has said before, every story and genre have their own circumstances, and having the MC be unlikable helped in a story about how he became fucked up as he was becoming an adult.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by jonnty7 View Post
              Not at all trust me lol

              Anyway fair enough I'll be taking as many notes anyway from anyone before I get going.
              I'm truly glad that it wasn't the case- I have no doubts that you have an earnest, genuine love towards your work, so treading on the line between brutally-honest criticism and encouragement could lead to something else in its entirety.
              I truly hope that you succeed in your endeavors, and make it to the very Top!

              Comment


              • jonnty7
                jonnty7 commented
                Editing a comment
                Oh I like brutally honest, helps me with my writing tbh.

              • Mr.Sunshine
                Mr.Sunshine commented
                Editing a comment
                That's a good thing to hear.
                It makes you well-suited to be vocal and self-aware enough to acknowledge your faults, and move forward with your revised edits and all.
                Good luck, and keep striving forward!

              #27
              cunning, intelligent lik Moriarty

              Comment


                #28
                A rival that has something outside of being a rival for the MC. It also has to make sense that he's a rival to the MC.

                Comment


                  #29
                  I think a likeable mc could be good or evil, but the key thing that makes them likeable is that regardless of their alignment they should be relatable or draw sympathy from the audience. And if they're evil they should have redeeming qualities.

                  A good rival is basically someone who is opposite of the mc's personality and constantly challenges the mc and keeps them on their toes. They should especially be someone the mc constantly strives to surpass

                  Comment


                    #30
                    A good MC...

                    ....

                    I've never really thought about it, to be honest. If I had to make a definite statement, I'd say protagonists as stand-alone templates are largely secondary to me. I don't really care whether I can relate to them or not, what their ethics are, mannerisms, etc. None of that really becomes important to me unless I'm creating an antagonist.

                    A protag is a protag. They're meant to be thrust into difficult situations, be totally destroyed and brutalized, and re-emerge either better or worse off than before. The only interesting thing about them, to me, is watching them react to their tests and seeing where they come out. That's what makes a good story good, in my opinion: the 'story' element itself, or perhaps it can be more easily understood as the environment.

                    One example that immediately comes to mind is Walter White. Purely on paper, his character does not stand out to me at all, and I also cannot relate to it at all. I mean, a chemistry teacher with lung cancer who wants to leave something for his family? Zzzzz. Breaking Bad did well to keep the cast on their toes, and kept putting Walter into extremely difficult situations where every aspect of his character was challenged. Sometimes he did the right thing, sometimes he didn't. I won't spoil too many details in case you haven't watched the series, but suffice it to say that Walter's memorable role in the series was largely down to the precarious challenges that he faced.

                    "just write a good story, dumb ass", sounds like extremely unhelpful advice, though...The important thing you need to take away is that, when you're writing a character, you HAVE to include within them the inherent capacity to lose. Don't be like fucking Kishimoto with a god-invincible MC running around rehabilitating villains in 4 minutes, or mass resurrecting a bunch of secondary characters just because lolIfeelbad. Have them fail, and fail SPECTACULARLY.

                    You want a good MC, come up with a good setting and series of trials, the rest will write itself - OH, and focus more on making good ANTAGONISTS.

                    Comment


                      #31
                      Originally posted by Mr.Sunshine View Post

                      I'm truly glad that it wasn't the case- I have no doubts that you have an earnest, genuine love towards your work, so treading on the line between brutally-honest criticism and encouragement could lead to something else in its entirety.
                      I truly hope that you succeed in your endeavors, and make it to the very Top!
                      Mr sunshine you're back! *hug*

                      Comment


                      • Mr.Sunshine
                        Mr.Sunshine commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Chara:
                        I'm truly happy that you greeted me back, even if I had to go away again.
                        I thank you for your hospitable welcome, Chara.

                        How have you been fairing?
                        Are you eating high-protein meals?
                        Are you making sure to smile from the bottom of your heart?
                        I've prayed day and night to the Lord in hopes that everyone would be kept safe and warm in his loving arms, so I'm truly overjoyed to know that you're right here living your life as you should be.
                        Thank goodness- that truly makes the world shine so brightly, you know? ^_^

                      • Chara
                        Chara commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Mr.Sunshine I'm doing alright. uwu and yeah! I've been eating a lot of protein. I've been losing weight too. I lost 30 pounds in just a few weeks! And I've been doing my best to keep smiling. Things are still hard though. People are spreading rumors about me but it doesn't matter, I'll be out of here in a couple months. Can't wait to be out of the navy.

                      • Mr.Sunshine
                        Mr.Sunshine commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Chara:
                        Eureka!
                        I knew that you could do it!
                        Without a shadow of a doubt.
                        *Puff-Puff!*
                        That's the right mentality to have- let them spoil themselves till they rot, and you be happy as your finish line is a couple months away.
                        I'm so happy and proud of you! =3

                      #32
                      Originally posted by Helly View Post
                      A good MC...

                      ....

                      I've never really thought about it, to be honest. If I had to make a definite statement, I'd say protagonists as stand-alone templates are largely secondary to me. I don't really care whether I can relate to them or not, what their ethics are, mannerisms, etc. None of that really becomes important to me unless I'm creating an antagonist.

                      A protag is a protag. They're meant to be thrust into difficult situations, be totally destroyed and brutalized, and re-emerge either better or worse off than before. The only interesting thing about them, to me, is watching them react to their tests and seeing where they come out. That's what makes a good story good, in my opinion: the 'story' element itself, or perhaps it can be more easily understood as the environment.

                      One example that immediately comes to mind is Walter White. Purely on paper, his character does not stand out to me at all, and I also cannot relate to it at all. I mean, a chemistry teacher with lung cancer who wants to leave something for his family? Zzzzz. Breaking Bad did well to keep the cast on their toes, and kept putting Walter into extremely difficult situations where every aspect of his character was challenged. Sometimes he did the right thing, sometimes he didn't. I won't spoil too many details in case you haven't watched the series, but suffice it to say that Walter's memorable role in the series was largely down to the precarious challenges that he faced.

                      "just write a good story, dumb ass", sounds like extremely unhelpful advice, though...The important thing you need to take away is that, when you're writing a character, you HAVE to include within them the inherent capacity to lose. Don't be like fucking Kishimoto with a god-invincible MC running around rehabilitating villains in 4 minutes, or mass resurrecting a bunch of secondary characters just because lolIfeelbad. Have them fail, and fail SPECTACULARLY.

                      You want a good MC, come up with a good setting and series of trials, the rest will write itself - OH, and focus more on making good ANTAGONISTS.
                      Naruto is a real ass nigga and I won't have you disrespecting his name like that, fool.

                      Sasuke is a bitch though

                      Comment


                        #33

                        Last edited by Max; January 4th, 2019, 11:35 PM.

                        Comment


                          #34
                          The MC's have to be... interesting. Whether their life is good, bad, shitty, dark, happy go lucky, whatever. They as a person have to be interesting. How you define interesting is up to you. Some find Naruto interesting, I would rather watch Goku cause at least he doesn't make me cringe but the best MCs are the ones that keep you tuning into the show not just to see what happens next but to just see them on screen doing their thing.

                          Code Geass
                          Death Note
                          Full Metal Alchemist
                          My Hero Academia

                          Are just some off the top of my head that had interesting MCs. I'm sure there are others but I can't recall. I'm sure others have their favorites but I think the hardest part here is separating a good show from a good MC. Like... DBZ! Some of the best suspense and action in a fictional spectacle fighter show around. Yet we all know Goku is one of the shittiest MCs around but he is beloved by many because he entertains people, his fights are... interesting.

                          Comment


                          • Kajin_Style
                            Kajin_Style commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Granted "interesting" might be a bad word to use so it synonyms round out my point much better --- absorbing, engrossing, fascinating, riveting, gripping, compelling, compulsive, captivating, engaging, enthralling, etc etc

                          #35
                          Notwithstanding the necro, given that this thread is in Anime and Manga, I couldn't possibly take it seriously.

                          "Listen, Bubbs: hear that? The sounds of the whispering winds of shit."
                          Rest in peace, John Dunsworth (1946-2017).

                          Comment


                            #36
                            being fast hedgehogs

                            Comment


                              #37
                              Originally posted by Max View Post

                              Naruto is a real ass nigga and I won't have you disrespecting his name like that, fool.

                              Sasuke is a bitch though
                              nardo is a peace of shit, max, nardo is a steaming moist turd that was shat all over the very purpose of the character itself. how KiSHITmoto lost the point so hard is astonishing...hard-working ninja turned prophecy child, what an absolute travesty smfh

                              Comment


                                #38
                                there you go


                                and whoever bumps 4-5 year old threads should swing (on the swing set)
                                Cows - Shaking

                                Comment


                                  #39
                                  A good MC sparkles

                                  A good rival has nice abs

                                  Comment


                                    #40
                                    With all due respect to Helly, I don't agree with the idea that all a protagonist is, is reactionary. Of course, things have to happen that people react to, but that's not all there is to a character.

                                    Let's take Breaking Bad for example, again. The interesting thing about Walt isn't that he's a chemistry teacher with lung cancer that wants to leave something to his family. That was just what Vince Gillian let us see of him at first.

                                    The interesting thing about Walt is that he's an intensely prideful, spiteful man that (as he saw it) was thrown away from the life that he earned, that he deserved. If he were truly only looking out for his family, he could've gotten out much sooner than he had, but that wasn't all that there was to him. He was trying to build himself a legacy that would overshadow GreyMatter Industries, because he was sick of being on the short end of the stick. Then there's his view on death, which is disjointed and twisted as his cognitive dissonance made it. Family is all-important, Jesse is all-important, but literally anyone else is expendable- including himself, after a certain point. This is the viewpoint of a man that wouldn't allow himself to be the bad guy, so he had to justify all the corpses that lay at his feet. If it weren't for the wrinkles to his character that made Walt such a unique individual, the show would not have been the 10/10 experience that it is.

                                    I would say that any good MC should be nuanced. They should have a personality that compliments the challenges they face, but they should be their own character. To make a purely reactionary character is to make a bland, limp MC that people forget about.

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