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  • Cirno
    started a topic Offical Football Thread

    Offical Football Thread

    Talk about anything football here, UEFA, Spanish, Premier league etc..etc..

    No american football, gtfo with that garbage.~

  • Lord L'Zoril
    replied
    Originally posted by Louay View Post
    I think that is the problem though, Tite has all those pieces he could use to build a scary offensive team yet he still opts for defensive football against good teams. There's a reason why Brazilians up until recently were begging Jose fucking Mourinho to come and take his job lol. And yeah, I rate Griezmann. It will be interesting to see how he adapts at Barcelona.

    It seems like most successful counter-attacking teams have one thing in common. Very deadly strikers. I guess it's understandable when you need your forwards to make the most out of the limited chances you're going to get.
    Barca to win yet another La Liga title next year, only even Real won't be able to put up a good fight this time around. Consequently, Ronaldo will have cucked himself out of a B d'O, which makes it all the more likely our boy snaps it up. :D Though neither one is very likely to win this year's...

    I read that 2018 overall was the worst year in Germany's history, results-wise. They didn't win a single friendly that year before the world cup except for maybe against Saudi Arabia (barely.) The loss to Mexico was the final nail in the coffin (with SK burying them and setting the tombstone) but the dysfunction in their squad was obvious from the start. I distinctly remember Mexico getting a proper whooping from Sweden and needing a miracle from South Korea to even qualify. After all, we have a Mexican here in this very thread that would testify to how underwhelming their performance was in that tournament.
    On second thought, maybe I shouldn't give Mexico the benefit of the doubt. Even this year, they barely clawed their way to a 1-0 "victory" against an American side in the CONCACAF final. That's just sad, lol.

    Absolutely. 2014 Di Maria was godlike. Sad thing he's washed up by now, the move to Man United killed him and at PSG he's been reduced to a benchwarmer. Outside of that goal against France I don't think he has contributed anything to the national team in years.
    Well, he also helped them get to the Copa finals in 2015 and 2016, only for them to ultimately lose to Chile in a shoot-out. However, it is worth noting that he was injured in both of these games and the one game he played (the whole length of), Argentina defeated Chile. But yeah, he's been more or less invisible until that sexy goal against France last year. Invisible since, too...

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  • DokTOR.
    replied
    >he rates Griezmann

    literally does jack shit all game and takes all the credit

    Leave a comment:


  • Louay
    replied
    Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post
    It's funny that you bring up clubs. Neymar was part of the deadliest trio in football history (Messi, Suarez, and Neymar). The only way that could've possibly been more one-sided is if they'd swapped out Suarez for Ronaldo. This isn't just a golden generation, which is the best players in a country at a given time. This is the best players in the entire world. Speaking of Griezmann though; despite his underwhelming performance in the WC, he's one of the deadliest strikers in the world. So much so that Rivaldo (yeah, that Rivaldo) thinks he could complement MSN spectacularly and allow Barca to run a four-pronged attack rather than a traditional three. Why would one of "Three Rs" run two counter-attack specialists alongside two of the most offensive-minded players in the world, lol. Doesn't make any sense. An overwhelming attack, on the other hand, makes even the best defense seemingly moot.
    I think that is the problem though, Tite has all those pieces he could use to build a scary offensive team yet he still opts for defensive football against good teams. There's a reason why Brazilians up until recently were begging Jose fucking Mourinho to come and take his job lol. And yeah, I rate Griezmann. It will be interesting to see how he adapts at Barcelona.

    It seems like most successful counter-attacking teams have one thing in common. Very deadly strikers. I guess it's understandable when you need your forwards to make the most out of the limited chances you're going to get.

    2014 Germany =/= 2018 Germany, but the Germany that Mexico beat still isn't the same "Germany" that Korea beat. The Germany that Mexico (barely) overcame still had teeth, no matter how dull. They were toothless in the Korea game, either lacking in motivation or thinking it would be a cakewalk. Either way, their arrogance felled them. Korea had nothing to lose (having lost every single game to that point) and there's nothing more dangerous than someone with nothing left to lose. A lesson they would've done well to learn.
    I read that 2018 overall was the worst year in Germany's history, results-wise. They didn't win a single friendly that year before the world cup except for maybe against Saudi Arabia (barely.) The loss to Mexico was the final nail in the coffin (with SK burying them and setting the tombstone) but the dysfunction in their squad was obvious from the start. I distinctly remember Mexico getting a proper whooping from Sweden and needing a miracle from South Korea to even qualify. After all, we have a Mexican here in this very thread that would testify to how underwhelming their performance was in that tournament.

    Ironically, I'm still convinced that Di Maria's presence on the pitch in the 2014 final would've changed the whole tempo. Instead of playing conservatively and deservedly losing to Germany (not only was their defense on point despite 3-man marking Messi, so was their offense with 5 shots on targ vs. an underwhelming 0), a Messi -> to Di Maria instead of everyone else passing to him and hoping for a Hail Mary could've sealed the deal. Mascherano and Biglia couldn't even support the (bad) defenders properly. Argentines are lucky that Romero carried them even that far.
    Unfortunately, this is true. Plus, an unscrupulous team could just score one measly goal via counters and park the bus or play keep-away and run down the clock the rest of the game. Which is just bad football. Boring football.
    Absolutely. 2014 Di Maria was godlike. Sad thing he's washed up by now, the move to Man United killed him and at PSG he's been reduced to a benchwarmer. Outside of that goal against France I don't think he has contributed anything to the national team in years.

    Leave a comment:


  • DokTOR.
    replied
    Congrats to mehico but you're still lesser spain

    Leave a comment:


  • Helly
    replied
    USMNT is getting dragged thru the mud rn lol.....quite unfairly, imo. sure they lost to a C team and consequently didnt "measure up" to the USWNT's performance for the woman's WC, but no one cares about the woman's WC to begin with, not even other women.

    lol

    Apparently, El Tri's next announced game isn't until September. Its gonna be against one hell of an opponent, none other than the albicelestes aka Argentina. we conceded two back-to-back games last year, both ending 2-0. whats even more daunting is that Messi wasn't even in those games

    oh yes

    he will be playing in the upcoming game this fall. Man.....that is one hell of a team to play against, holy crap lol. I'm honestly looking forward to it, though. It will just be interesting to see how we do, though obv I don't expect a dub.
    Last edited by Helly; July 9th, 2019, 11:39 AM.

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  • Lord L'Zoril
    replied
    Originally posted by Louay View Post
    What? that's like saying Atletico and Juve are offensive teams because they rely on Griezmann and Douglas Costa for counters lol. The main feature of offensive football is a high defensive line, trapping the opponent in their own box and dominating possession, Brazil never do that under Tite (willingly.) But what happens when the other team plays that same defensive style as you? What the other teams did against them was that they took them out of their comfort zone, Brazil weren't comfortable with having possession most of the game and no space to make runs into, and it showed. Every game they played then they struggled to score. They'll get many shots, sure, only natural when the opponent lets you have near 70% possession, the different is how many of those shots were dangerous. Coutinho taking shot after shot from outside the box because they can't break through the defense, and crossing into aimless headers to fill up the stats with 20+ shots doesn't mean they were efficient. When they play their usual style they get as few as 5 shots but they're all very clear-cut or 1 on 1s with the keeper.
    During this very tournament you can see evidence for that yourself. Against defensive teams: Venezuela (0-0) Paraguay who played with 10 players for an entire half (0-0). Against offensive teams? smashed Peru (who were good enough to beat title-holders Chile and hold their ground against contenders Uruguay) by 5, and the Argentina game in question.
    The circumstances of the Belgium game are very similar to Brazil-Argentina so you should get where I'm coming from, but replace "lucky goal" with "dumb referee decisions" and the narrative is the same, the team who pushed for a goal all game got the short end of the stick due to unfortunate events and the team that sat back and relied on a counter went through, difference is that Argentina are used to to being the offensive team while Brazil were forced into that role in that game. And let's be honest here, looking at their record that year, beating 2018 Germany was hardly an achievement, lol.
    It's funny that you bring up clubs. Neymar was part of the deadliest trio in football history (Messi, Suarez, and Neymar). The only way that could've possibly been more one-sided is if they'd swapped out Suarez for Ronaldo. This isn't just a golden generation, which is the best players in a country at a given time. This is the best players in the entire world. Speaking of Griezmann though; despite his underwhelming performance in the WC, he's one of the deadliest strikers in the world. So much so that Rivaldo (yeah, that Rivaldo) thinks he could complement MSN spectacularly and allow Barca to run a four-pronged attack rather than a traditional three. Why would one of "Three Rs" run two counter-attack specialists alongside two of the most offensive-minded players in the world, lol. Doesn't make any sense. An overwhelming attack, on the other hand, makes even the best defense seemingly moot.

    2014 Germany =/= 2018 Germany, but the Germany that Mexico beat still isn't the same "Germany" that Korea beat. The Germany that Mexico (barely) overcame still had teeth, no matter how dull. They were toothless in the Korea game, either lacking in motivation or thinking it would be a cakewalk. Either way, their arrogance felled them. Korea had nothing to lose (having lost every single game to that point) and there's nothing more dangerous than someone with nothing left to lose. A lesson they would've done well to learn.

    The 3rd place game against Chile has given us the answer, Dybala is by far the best option to start next to Messi and Aguero. Di Maria unfortunately was the worst player in the entire squad throughout the tournament. Killed their offensive momentum the moment he set foot on the pitch, every single time. Lo Celso has linked up well with the other midfielders and has contributed defensively better than any of the other candidates, a top 5 midfielder in Copa 2019 in terms of tackles despite missing 2 games on the bench, that's pretty impressive for an offensive-minded midifielder. Doesn't hurt that I also rate him on club level.
    I've always liked the philosophy of "concede 3 but at least score 4" but I don't think it's a sustainable strategy especially in knockout rounds, one bad day and you're out
    Ironically, I'm still convinced that Di Maria's presence on the pitch in the 2014 final would've changed the whole tempo. Instead of playing conservatively and deservedly losing to Germany (not only was their defense on point despite 3-man marking Messi, so was their offense with 5 shots on targ vs. an underwhelming 0), a Messi -> to Di Maria instead of everyone else passing to him and hoping for a Hail Mary could've sealed the deal. Mascherano and Biglia couldn't even support the (bad) defenders properly. Argentines are lucky that Romero carried them even that far.
    Unfortunately, this is true. Plus, an unscrupulous team could just score one measly goal via counters and park the bus or play keep-away and run down the clock the rest of the game. Which is just bad football. Boring football.
    Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; July 9th, 2019, 07:27 AM.

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  • Helly
    replied
    gg wp, ya frikkin CAC-ass CACs

    its a shame we couldnt at least go 4-0 on their home turf but oh well. props to the americans, they were being p aggressive in the first half. now, tata martino, what will you do about the exploits the imperialists found during their time studying your team........

    Leave a comment:


  • Helly
    replied
    HEH

    NOTHING PERSONNEL, KIDS

    Leave a comment:


  • Helly
    replied
    half time

    Mehico 0 - 0 USA

    stats on paper look pretty dead even, with mehico just slightly edging out on possession(54%) and shots (8 vs 5)

    goddamn

    listening to two different livestreams, one for the yanks the other for the beans....each side thinks the other looks like a threat to them

    goddamnit this is close lol

    Leave a comment:


  • Louay
    replied
    Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

    The reliance on flying wingers to (counter-)attack with regularity falls under "offense," imo. Maybe it's not the same standard of offensive football we saw from Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and Rivaldo, but it's offensive all the same. You can't spell "counter-attack" without "attack." I wouldn't say they always get exposed either. IIrc, Belgium got lucky in that Fernandinho was their 12th man on the pitch. If not for him, they would've eventually conceded another goal... and another (9 shots on target vs. 3). Mexico, the same team that previously stifled Germany, also attempted to park the bus and score only on counters. Guess what the result was? They were BTFO in the Ro16 as is custom. Brazil's understated offense tore them apart (10 shots on target), innit? Mexco may not be a top team like Brazil or Belgium, but they are sure as Hell no pushovers either. Just ask Germany.
    What? that's like saying Atletico and Juve are offensive teams because they rely on Griezmann and Douglas Costa for counters lol. The main feature of offensive football is a high defensive line, trapping the opponent in their own box and dominating possession, Brazil never do that under Tite (willingly.) But what happens when the other team plays that same defensive style as you? What the other teams did against them was that they took them out of their comfort zone, Brazil weren't comfortable with having possession most of the game and no space to make runs into, and it showed. Every game they played then they struggled to score. They'll get many shots, sure, only natural when the opponent lets you have near 70% possession, the different is how many of those shots were dangerous. Coutinho taking shot after shot from outside the box because they can't break through the defense, and crossing into aimless headers to fill up the stats with 20+ shots doesn't mean they were efficient. When they play their usual style they get as few as 5 shots but they're all very clear-cut or 1 on 1s with the keeper.
    During this very tournament you can see evidence for that yourself. Against defensive teams: Venezuela (0-0) Paraguay who played with 10 players for an entire half (0-0). Against offensive teams? smashed Peru (who were good enough to beat title-holders Chile and hold their ground against contenders Uruguay) by 5, and the Argentina game in question.
    The circumstances of the Belgium game are very similar to Brazil-Argentina so you should get where I'm coming from, but replace "lucky goal" with "dumb referee decisions" and the narrative is the same, the team who pushed for a goal all game got the short end of the stick due to unfortunate events and the team that sat back and relied on a counter went through, difference is that Argentina are used to to being the offensive team while Brazil were forced into that role in that game. And let's be honest here, looking at their record that year, beating 2018 Germany was hardly an achievement, lol.

    I'd possibly accept Dybala, but Lo Celso (or fucking Acuna) over Di Maria? LOL. He's getting to be over the hill now, sure, but he still has good synergy with Messi. Can't speak for his performance in this year's Copa, but he was crucial in the ill-fated match against France in the WC.
    It has been said that a "good offense is the best defense." I wonder if Argentina shouldn't just relax its already anemic defense and pump up its offense instead. Messi's always walking around, trying to create chances from nothing but what if he didn't have to? What if they didn't play the waiting game (which only makes it easier for the opp to eventually slump the defense)?
    The 3rd place game against Chile has given us the answer, Dybala is by far the best option to start next to Messi and Aguero. Di Maria unfortunately was the worst player in the entire squad throughout the tournament. Killed their offensive momentum the moment he set foot on the pitch, every single time. Lo Celso has linked up well with the other midfielders and has contributed defensively better than any of the other candidates, a top 5 midfielder in Copa 2019 in terms of tackles despite missing 2 games on the bench, that's pretty impressive for an offensive-minded midifielder. Doesn't hurt that I also rate him on club level.
    I've always liked the philosophy of "concede 3 but at least score 4" but I don't think it's a sustainable strategy especially in knockout rounds, one bad day and you're out
    Last edited by Louay; July 6th, 2019, 06:21 PM.

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  • Aure0lin
    commented on 's reply
    they taste like ur mum

  • DokTOR.
    replied
    Acuna is actually based

    Leave a comment:


  • Lord L'Zoril
    replied
    Originally posted by Louay View Post

    Not really, the defensive style came after 2016 when they were knocked out of the groups in the Copa America, sacked their manager and appointed Tite, who turned Brazil that's famous for its offensive football and flair into a counter-attacking team. Belgium playing defensively wasn't because they feared their mighty forward trio, they actually used their own tactics against them: bait the other team out of their half and let your pacey wingers have a field day on the counter. That's literally what Brazil does against every competent team, and when other competitive teams pull that shit against them they always get exposed.
    Sure, they are extremely clinical and they can usually convert half-chances, but they are not the type of team to completely overwhelm the other side with their offensive pressure even if you're parking the bus like Spain's golden generation or Barcelona.

    Di Maria is actually their worst player tho lol, completely useless this tournament, but yeah I agree I can't understand why he'd put Acuna in the starting XI at all, you have so many options on the bench like Dybala and Lo Celso and you decide to play some Liga NOS shitter?
    Scaloni (their coach) was a video analyst a year ago and not actually a coach, and this was his first managerial spell. They unironically overachieved considering the circumstances. They concede goals too easily and haven't had a decent defender since Garay in 2014, it's always playing catch-up for them after conceding an early goal.
    The reliance on flying wingers to (counter-)attack with regularity falls under "offense," imo. Maybe it's not the same standard of offensive football we saw from Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and Rivaldo, but it's offensive all the same. You can't spell "counter-attack" without "attack." I wouldn't say they always get exposed either. IIrc, Belgium got lucky in that Fernandinho was their 12th man on the pitch. If not for him, they would've eventually conceded another goal... and another (9 shots on target vs. 3). Mexico, the same team that previously stifled Germany, also attempted to park the bus and score only on counters. Guess what the result was? They were BTFO in the Ro16 as is custom. Brazil's understated offense tore them apart (10 shots on target), innit? Mexco may not be a top team like Brazil or Belgium, but they are sure as Hell no pushovers either. Just ask Germany.

    I'd possibly accept Dybala, but Lo Celso (or fucking Acuna) over Di Maria? LOL. He's getting to be over the hill now, sure, but he still has good synergy with Messi. Can't speak for his performance in this year's Copa, but he was crucial in the ill-fated match against France in the WC.
    It has been said that a "good offense is the best defense." I wonder if Argentina shouldn't just relax its already anemic defense and pump up its offense instead. Messi's always walking around, trying to create chances from nothing but what if he didn't have to? What if they didn't play the waiting game (which only makes it easier for the opp to eventually slump the defense)?

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  • DokTOR.
    commented on 's reply
    how do they taste

  • Helly
    replied
    mehico 1-0 haiti after a controversial penalty kick

    meanwhile US wins jamaica 3-1

    gdi martino are these kids that bad? dont lose to these imperialist dogs in the finals ffs martino

    Leave a comment:


  • Louay
    replied
    Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

    Sure, though I haven't seen past series one.



    Actually, they probably adapted a "more" defensive style after Germany tore them several new ones in 2014. All that firepower and they were unable to capitalize because they had no real defense to speak of. In any case, the very fact that Belgium was forced to play defensively despite having an extremely potent offensive front in its own right (Hazard-De Bruyne-Lukaka) should be testament to how deadly Brazil's attack really is. And that was just a generic 4-3-3. They ran a 4-2-3-1 against Argentina, whose defense is nowhere near as stalwart as Belgium's to say the least. And it doesn't help that Scaloni chose to run a 4-1-2-1-2 instead of exploiting a Brazilian side sans Neymar by pushing Argentina's offense. Also not sure why he decided to play Acuna for an hour over the more dependable Di Maria, but aight.

    I can see it now, yeah. Probably a bad call in retrospect, but letting it get to 2-0 or even 1-0 in the first place when you're starting Messi and Aguero against a Neymar-less Brazil is just sad, lol. All-around chokejob.
    Not really, the defensive style came after 2016 when they were knocked out of the groups in the Copa America, sacked their manager and appointed Tite, who turned Brazil that's famous for its offensive football and flair into a counter-attacking team. Belgium playing defensively wasn't because they feared their mighty forward trio, they actually used their own tactics against them: bait the other team out of their half and let your pacey wingers have a field day on the counter. That's literally what Brazil does against every competent team, and when other competitive teams pull that shit against them they always get exposed.
    Sure, they are extremely clinical and they can usually convert half-chances, but they are not the type of team to completely overwhelm the other side with their offensive pressure even if you're parking the bus like Spain's golden generation or Barcelona.

    Di Maria is actually their worst player tho lol, completely useless this tournament, but yeah I agree I can't understand why he'd put Acuna in the starting XI at all, you have so many options on the bench like Dybala and Lo Celso and you decide to play some Liga NOS shitter?
    Scaloni (their coach) was a video analyst a year ago and not actually a coach, and this was his first managerial spell. They unironically overachieved considering the circumstances. They concede goals too easily and haven't had a decent defender since Garay in 2014, it's always playing catch-up for them after conceding an early goal.

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  • Flame Saber
    replied
    Anyone here plays Pro evolution soccer 2019 in PS4?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lord L'Zoril
    replied
    Originally posted by Beholder View Post

    It any good? Been trying to find new series to watch.
    Sure, though I haven't seen past series one.

    Originally posted by Louay View Post

    I'll take Messi, Aguero, Dybala/Icardi (with a proper coach, that is) over them any day. Their offensive energy is also hardly that relevant in that context because as of the last 2-3 years they've adopted a more defensive style, relying on counters starting from the fullbacks, it's no surprise that Dani Alves at 36 is their MVP in this tournament. Save for times when they play a massively inferior team. Every time they've faced another counter-attacking team that let have the ball most of the game, they've struggled. They failed to score against Venezuela and 10-man Paraguay, and I still remember how even Belgium, who are more stacked offensively, pulled this strategy against them and decided not to play their usual offensive football in the quarters vs Brazil w/ Neymar, and it worked.

    https://twitter.com/GustArballo/stat...47102948945923 maybe the link will work now
    Actually, they probably adapted a "more" defensive style after Germany tore them several new ones in 2014. All that firepower and they were unable to capitalize because they had no real defense to speak of. In any case, the very fact that Belgium was forced to play defensively despite having an extremely potent offensive front in its own right (Hazard-De Bruyne-Lukaka) should be testament to how deadly Brazil's attack really is. And that was just a generic 4-3-3. They ran a 4-2-3-1 against Argentina, whose defense is nowhere near as stalwart as Belgium's to say the least. And it doesn't help that Scaloni chose to run a 4-1-2-1-2 instead of exploiting a Brazilian side sans Neymar by pushing Argentina's offense. Also not sure why he decided to play Acuna for an hour over the more dependable Di Maria, but aight.

    I can see it now, yeah. Probably a bad call in retrospect, but letting it get to 2-0 or even 1-0 in the first place when you're starting Messi and Aguero against a Neymar-less Brazil is just sad, lol. All-around chokejob.
    Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; July 4th, 2019, 05:12 AM.

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  • Aure0lin
    commented on 's reply
    lemme know if ur still mad
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