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I think President Trump probably broke the law at some point, but...

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    #41
    Originally posted by King John View Post
    My nigga you the biggest joke on here for real, I always look forward to your replies because they're always hilariously bad takes.
    lmao

    Originally posted by King John View Post
    Ok, so where's the proof of even an attempt of extortion? Trump and the President of Ukraine both said there was no extortion attempt.
    You mean other than the transcript which reads like a mob shakedown? You mean other than Trump's own top aide explicitly saying it was an extortion attempt?

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...idence-909873/

    Well, there's also all that.

    Originally posted by King John View Post
    Yeah lying under oath should be an impeachable offense, do you disagree with that? If there was proof Trump lied under oath then the Dems probably should have gone after him on that instead of the weak ass cases they're trying right now.
    Yeah, Trump lied under oath. Mueller stated as much in his report, but Senate republicans refused to even acknowledge it. lmao

    Originally posted by King John View Post
    Trump was largely self funded, it was his money being used, who cares what he uses it on?
    https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-pre...e?id=N00023864

    Most of Trump's money comes from donations, actually. Also, there are campaign finance laws that dictate how campaign money can be spent.

    You know, just in case you weren't aware.

    Originally posted by King John View Post
    Hahahha,wait wait wait, stop you actual believe the information he was looking for is "nonexistent"...... That is next level idiocy,
    I mean, there's literally no proof of any wrongdoing on Biden's behalf at the moment.

    But don't take my word for it. Here's the former Ukraine prosecutor's opinion.

    https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...ongdoing-biden

    Originally posted by King John View Post
    Oh you mean sort of like this, except not nearly as damning?

    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-and-prosecut/

    I mean, fuck Joe Biden anyway. But that ain't it, chief.

    Comment


      #42
      Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

      No matter what you guys think about Trump’s Ukraine stuff, this kind of hurts the Democrats’ case, lol.
      It doesn't, actually.

      Check the above link from Politifact. The prosecutor was corrupt and everyone wanted him gone.

      That prosecutor also wasn't actually investigating the company Biden's son worked at, official documents show that he had shelved that investigation over a year before Biden pressured the Ukrainian government for his firing.

      What King John did here was see Trump's false ad about this situation on television and proceeded to find the clip of Biden without actually doing any independent research to verify the facts.

      Comment


        #43
        Originally posted by Cid View Post

        It doesn't, actually.

        Check the above link from Politifact. The prosecutor was corrupt and everyone wanted him gone.

        That prosecutor also wasn't actually investigating the company Biden's son worked at, official documents show that he had shelved that investigation over a year before Biden pressured the Ukrainian government for his firing.

        What King John did here was see Trump's false ad about this situation on television and proceeded to find the clip of Biden without actually doing any independent research to verify the facts.
        Well, that’s cool...but...

        "He Tweeted something mean and he's just so...ugly, we gotta get rid of 'im."-House Democrats when they're bored (cited it on the first page).

        Lmao.
        Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; November 16th, 2019, 01:09 AM.

        Comment


          #44
          Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

          Well, that’s cool...but...

          "He Tweeted something mean and he's just so...ugly, we gotta get rid of 'im."-House Democrats when they're bored (cited it on the first page).

          Lmao.

          This is the kind of shit that makes the Dems think the guy's gotta go?
          ... And? If I had a dollar for every time a republican said something mind-numbingly stupid, I'd be richer than Trump.

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by King John View Post

            It's not against the law to ask for for information on potential corruption cases, countries ask for favors from each other all the time, what do you think foreign relations is all about? Now if you want to see a politicians straight up admit to withholding funds to get what they want from Ukraine, watch the video on Biden I posted.
            That depends on what he is asking for. If it was just corruption in Ukraine where he had into of a double agent within their government, sure not against the law. However, he asked about Biden. Someone who is running for office. If Trump knew there was corruption involving the Bidens, why did he wait until now? Why not do it earlier? Why is Biden suddenly this important? The intent behind asking about Biden and the timing calls a tone to question.

            It also sets a precedence if he is allowed to get away from this. Imagine future presidents having foreign countries investigate private citizens running for office. That alone is terrible. EVEN if Trump's is correct about this, he did it at the wrong time and wrong way. Especially given his whole Russia scandal, you think he avoid doing anything that looked like getting other countries to interfere in our elections.

            Comment


              #46
              Originally posted by Cid View Post

              ... And?
              I’m just saying that it’s funny that the Democrats that are trying to impeach Trump for the Ukraine thing also previously tried to nab him after he made a silly Tweet.
              Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; November 16th, 2019, 01:23 PM.

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                I’m just saying that it’s funny that the Democrats that are trying to impeach Trump for the Ukraine thing also previously tried to nab him after he made a silly Tweet.
                His use of Twitter has also caused legitimate issues and some fairly severe monetary damages for a handful of companies... So again... And?

                Comment


                  #48
                  Originally posted by Cid View Post

                  His use of Twitter has also caused legitimate issues and some fairly severe monetary damages for a handful of companies... So again... And?
                  ...It was over the “go back” Tweet, bruh, lol.

                  They tried to impeach him over a Trump troll. They failed, but they tried.

                  Honestly, this whole trend of the congress fixating itself SO RIGOROUSLY on the Tweets of government officials in general is just really hilarious.

                  Remember when Ilhan Omar said some shit about Israel and Israel stuff and the Congress decided it needed to pass statements of condemnation through a vote?

                  They couldn’t just tell a reporter that it was gay...and move on.

                  It’s hilarious.

                  Comment


                  • Cid
                    Cid commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It is what it is. Still doesn't matter and none of takes away from the fact that Trump has essentially committed treason and needs to be removed from office.

                  #49
                  Originally posted by Cid
                  Still doesn't matter and none of takes away from the fact that Trump has essentially committed treason and needs to be removed from office.
                  I already stated that I wanted him impeached for his shenanigans in a previous reply to King John and that I just didn’t like that it was the Democrats in particular impeaching him because I don’t trust that they actually want to nab him out of serious conviction that they think what he did was wrong as much as they want to get rid of him because of political opportunism...

                  I wouldn’t call it treason on Trump’s part, though, even if I think it should be an impeachable offense. He didn’t try to intentionally work against the US as a whole, just against a particular political actor (Biden).

                  He’s no Benedict Arnold...even with his evil Tweets of doom...

                  Comment


                    #50
                    Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                    I already stated that I wanted him impeached for his shenanigans in a previous reply to King John and that I just didn’t like that it was the Democrats in particular impeaching him because I don’t trust that they actually want to nab him out of serious conviction that they think what he did was wrong as much as they want to get rid of him because of political opportunism...
                    If democrats wanted him impeached just to get rid of him, they would have went after him when it got out that he lied under oath in his responses to Meuller. You're just being cynical, democrats aren't republicans. They're not going to impeach any president just because they don't like them.

                    Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post
                    I wouldn’t call it treason on Trump’s part, though, even if I think it should be an impeachable offense. He didn’t try to intentionally work against the US as a whole, just against a particular political actor (Biden).
                    Him directly asking a foreign nation (Russia) to conduct a cyber attack against the United States government (the DNC severs) on live television back in 2016 was treason, this stuff with Biden is just a gross abuse of power. He should have been arrested before he even had a chance to step foot into the Oval Office.

                    Comment


                      #51
                      Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                      That depends on what he is asking for. If it was just corruption in Ukraine where he had into of a double agent within their government, sure not against the law. However, he asked about Biden. Someone who is running for office. If Trump knew there was corruption involving the Bidens, why did he wait until now? Why not do it earlier? Why is Biden suddenly this important? The intent behind asking about Biden and the timing calls a tone to question.
                      Zelensky's only been president of Ukraine since May, this was to my knowledge the first time Trump had the opportunity to speak too Zelensky since he became president. A person being a potential political opponent doesn't exclude them from being investigated,

                      Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
                      It also sets a precedence if he is allowed to get away from this. Imagine future presidents having foreign countries investigate private citizens running for office. That alone is terrible. EVEN if Trump's is correct about this, he did it at the wrong time and wrong way. Especially given his whole Russia scandal, you think he avoid doing anything that looked like getting other countries to interfere in our elections.
                      If those private citizens have potentially committed illegal activity in one of those foreign countries should they not be investigated simply because they're a politician?

                      Comment


                        #52
                        Originally posted by King John View Post
                        If those private citizens have potentially committed illegal activity in one of those foreign countries should they not be investigated simply because they're a politician?
                        How does that argument not apply to the current Trump situation?
                        Last edited by OrganizationXV; November 16th, 2019, 02:55 PM.
                        Originally posted by Wade
                        Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

                        Comment


                          #53
                          Originally posted by Cid View Post



                          You mean other than the transcript which reads like a mob shakedown? You mean other than Trump's own top aide explicitly saying it was an extortion attempt?

                          https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...idence-909873/

                          Well, there's also all that.
                          Mob shakedown? Don't know many mob bosses who provide their services without getting what they wanted beforehand. Aid was delivered by Trump, with no services done in return, so.....
                          Originally posted by Cid View Post


                          Yeah, Trump lied under oath. Mueller stated as much in his report, but Senate republicans refused to even acknowledge it. lmao
                          Damn, Dems should probably go after him on an offense that has been proven to be impeachable in the past then.... oh wait they won't because the Mueller report was a fucking joke. You really think if there was any evidence of Trump lying under oath they wouldn't have gone after him on something actually impeachable not this Drew Pearson level Hail Mary attempt?

                          Originally posted by Cid View Post

                          Most of Trump's money comes from donations, actually. Also, there are campaign finance laws that dictate how campaign money can be spent.

                          You know, just in case you weren't aware.
                          I mean naw,

                          https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...campaign-sort/

                          _UUx9oPcO2WQwcqJ8KA-41sqLMMRpak9DlTUuacqR0kXubgvKhvkgB2PViPWSfU_k-Vjtdzd2ZzsqQAS3-Ol07nqa9h41HKSBDYmZ__KW6NkZVRimOU90ARDSjZ31WNPe6xi7H3v.png

                          Originally posted by Cid View Post

                          I mean, there's literally no proof of any wrongdoing on Biden's behalf at the moment.

                          But don't take my word for it. Here's the former Ukraine prosecutor's opinion.

                          https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...ongdoing-biden



                          https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-and-prosecut/

                          I mean, fuck Joe Biden anyway. But that ain't it, chief.
                          No proof of on Biden's behalf a the moment, yeah maybe if was investigated they would turn something up. Nigga even Obama's own administration felt there was enough to brief Yovanovitch about it before her Senate confirmation and to deflect any questions that were asked about it.

                          https://nypost.com/2019/11/15/obama-...itness-admits/

                          Come on my nigga, not even you are dumb enough to truly believe that Hunter Biden was given a board seat in a company in a foreign land that he's unqualified for, doesn't live in, and doesn't speak the language of for no reason. Even if you do believe that, that's still a video of Joe Biden bragging about withholding foreign aid to strong arm Ukraine into doing the bidding of the US, either that's ok or it's not.

                          Comment


                            #54
                            Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
                            How does that argument not apply to the current Trump situation?
                            Is he not being investigated?

                            Comment


                              #55
                              Originally posted by King John View Post

                              Is he not being investigated?
                              Did you not say he shouldn't be?
                              Originally posted by Wade
                              Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

                              Comment


                                #56
                                Originally posted by King John View Post
                                Mob shakedown? Don't know many mob bosses who provide their services without getting what they wanted beforehand. Aid was delivered by Trump, with no services done in return, so.....
                                Wrong.

                                Congress delivered the aid. It was an act of congress that Trump threatened to stop.

                                AND it was released two days AFTER the House began its investigations into the whole matter. So it's not like Trump implied he wouldn't give the aid and then changed his mind before anyone even knew about it. He changed his mind after he saw he was going to get impeached over it. lmao

                                Originally posted by King John View Post
                                Damn, Dems should probably go after him on an offense that has been proven to be impeachable in the past then.... oh wait they won't because the Mueller report was a fucking joke. You really think if there was any evidence of Trump lying under oath they wouldn't have gone after him on something actually impeachable not this Drew Pearson level Hail Mary attempt?
                                U.S. Rep. Val Demings: “Director Mueller, isn’t it fair to say that the president’s written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete, because he didn’t answer many of your questions, but where he did, his answers showed that he wasn’t always being truthful?”

                                Mueller: “I would say generally”

                                Not only that, but we know that Trump specifically told Mueller (through written answers because he was too scared to sit down face-to-face) that he had no knowledge of his campaign's connection to wikileaks, but Manafort and others in his campaign say that the President asked to be updated with the Wikileaks data dumps from the DNC email hack. (which Trump asked for, by the way.) So yes, he definitely lied under oath. But again, Senate republicans knew that and chose not to pursue it when the ball was in their court. But yes, that is part of the investigations going on with this impeachment inquiry. So you got your wish, they're also going after him for perjuring himself.

                                Originally posted by King John View Post
                                Congratulations, you managed to find a politifact article from early 2016, before his campaign really took off. I again direct you to open secrets.

                                https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/c...e?id=N00023864

                                But since reading is apparently not your strongest area, let me copy/paste some numbers.

                                40% of his 2016 funding came from PACs.
                                26% of his 2016 funding came from individual donations.
                                20% of his 2016 funding came from his own finances.

                                But going back to your own article... Nearly all of the money Trump "spent" in his campaign was actually just loans from his own businesses. He ended up converting about 70% of it into actual contributions, but that was after he used about $10 million of his campaign funds to pay for his own services... His campaign was also required, under federal law, to pay back the remaining 30% of the loans, equaling to another $15-$20 million of it going back to Trump.

                                But even if that wasn't the case, once money goes into a campaign it becomes protected under federal laws. And those laws aggressively dictate how that money is spent in order to cut down on corruption. It wouldn't matter if 100% of Trump's campaign was self-funded. Once he put that money into his campaign's account, he can't use it for personal things. It has to be used with relation to the campaign. Paying a porn star to keep her mouth shut doesn't fit under "campaign spending".

                                Originally posted by King John View Post
                                No proof of on Biden's behalf a the moment, yeah maybe if was investigated they would turn something up. Nigga even Obama's own administration felt there was enough to brief Yovanovitch about it before her Senate confirmation and to deflect any questions that were asked about it.

                                https://nypost.com/2019/11/15/obama-...itness-admits/

                                Come on my nigga, not even you are dumb enough to truly believe that Hunter Biden was given a board seat in a company in a foreign land that he's unqualified for, doesn't live in, and doesn't speak the language of for no reason. Even if you do believe that, that's still a video of Joe Biden bragging about withholding foreign aid to strong arm Ukraine into doing the bidding of the US, either that's ok or it's not.
                                Oh no, I think Hunter's appointment was shady as fuck. Biden's shady as fuck.

                                But with that said, Hunter wasn't actually under investigation by the Ukrainian Prosecutor that Biden helped to oust. So Biden had to personal reason to get the man out of his office. Instead, the man was widely hated, very corrupt, and just about everyone involved wanted the guy out because he wasn't investigating anyone or anything. So no, Biden bragging about getting the guy ousted is not even remotely similar to Trump's situation.

                                Biden threatened to withhold aid in order to oust a corrupt prosecutor that was holding up progress in his country.
                                Trump threatened to withhold aid in order to pressure a foreign government to investigate a political opponent's son.

                                There's a huge difference. One is politics, the other is an abuse of power. "Not even you are dumb enough to" think otherwise.

                                Now, are we done here? You've wasted a good deal of time with your nonsensical drivel as it is.
                                Last edited by Cid; November 16th, 2019, 05:18 PM.

                                Comment


                                  #57
                                  Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                                  Did you not say he shouldn't be?
                                  I don't care that he was investigated, I just don't think there was enough to bring him to an impeachment hearing, and definitely not enough to impeach.

                                  Comment


                                    #58
                                    Originally posted by Cid View Post

                                    Wrong.

                                    Congress delivered the aid. It was an act of congress that Trump threatened to stop.

                                    AND it was released two days AFTER the House began its investigations into the whole matter. So it's not like Trump implied he wouldn't give the aid and then changed his mind before anyone even knew about it. He changed his mind after he saw he was going to get impeached over it. lmao
                                    Ok so again, aid was given and no services were received between the time aid was being withheld and when it was give, so where's the extortion again?


                                    Originally posted by Cid View Post
                                    U.S. Rep. Val Demings: “Director Mueller, isn’t it fair to say that the president’s written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete, because he didn’t answer many of your questions, but where he did, his answers showed that he wasn’t always being truthful?”

                                    Mueller: “I would say generally”

                                    Not only that, but we know that Trump specifically told Mueller (through written answers because he was too scared to sit down face-to-face) that he had no knowledge of his campaign's connection to wikileaks, but Manafort and others in his campaign say that the President asked to be updated with the Wikileaks data dumps from the DNC email hack. (which Trump asked for, by the way.) So yes, he definitely lied under oath. But again, Senate republicans knew that and chose not to pursue it when the ball was in their court. But yes, that is part of the investigations going on with this impeachment inquiry. So you got your wish, they're also going after him for perjuring himself.
                                    Except for when he reiterated that he wasn't talking about Trump not being truthful.

                                    A source familiar with Mueller’s account told the Washington Post that Mueller was focused on Trump’s answers being incomplete rather than untruthful.

                                    “In answering ‘generally,’ Mueller did not mean to agree with every phrase in that question,” the source told the Post. “The Mueller report, which is the statement of record here, is what stands, and in the Mueller report, it states that the president’s written answers were ‘incomplete’ or ‘imprecise.’ ”

                                    The Washington Post story also points out that Mueller used the “generally” answer at other points in his testimony to signal agreement with parts of long questions.
                                    Haven't seen anything about perjury being apart of the current impeachment hearing, but I haven't watched all roughly 14 hours of the hearing.



                                    Originally posted by Cid View Post
                                    Oh no, I think Hunter's appointment was shady as fuck. Biden's shady as fuck.

                                    But with that said, Hunter wasn't actually under investigation by the Ukrainian Prosecutor that Biden helped to oust. So Biden had to personal reason to get the man out of his office. Instead, the man was widely hated, very corrupt, and just about everyone involved wanted the guy out because he wasn't investigating anyone or anything. So no, Biden bragging about getting the guy ousted is not even remotely similar to Trump's situation.

                                    Biden threatened to withhold aid in order to oust a corrupt prosecutor that was holding up progress in his country.
                                    Trump threatened to withhold aid in order to pressure a foreign government to investigate a political opponent's son.

                                    There's a huge difference. One is politics, the other is an abuse of power. "Not even you are dumb enough to" think otherwise.

                                    Now, are we done here? You've wasted a good deal of time with your nonsensical drivel as it is.
                                    So it is ok to withhold funds to "extort" foreign countries to do the bidding of America, got it. Now why would that fact that Biden's a politician make him exempt from being investigated by a foreign country. You said yourself it seems shady, why would it be wrong to investigate into a shady situation?

                                    Comment


                                      #59
                                      Originally posted by Cid View Post
                                      Him directly asking a foreign nation (Russia) to conduct a cyber attack against the United States government (the DNC severs) on live television back in 2016 was treason
                                      Haha, naaah. Especially as the information that was supposedly hacked was "maliciously" fed to WikiLeaks. Say what you will about Julian Assange, but nobody can deny that he's an agent of Veritas first and foremost.
                                      Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; November 16th, 2019, 05:57 PM.

                                      Comment


                                        #60
                                        Originally posted by King John View Post

                                        I don't care that he was investigated, I just don't think there was enough to bring him to an impeachment hearing, and definitely not enough to impeach.
                                        That's a marginally better point, although I'd wait to see what else gets brought up over the course of the hearing.
                                        Originally posted by King John View Post
                                        o it is ok to withhold funds to "extort" foreign countries to do the bidding of America, got it. Now why would that fact that Biden's a politician make him exempt from being investigated by a foreign country. You said yourself it seems shady, why would it be wrong to investigate into a shady situation?
                                        The problem is that we aren't looking into a politician for the sake of keeping everybody honest. We're having a foreign country feed us information to sabotage a political opponent of the current president. This is, of course, after Russian misinformation campaigns played a hand in securing the first presidency for Trump.
                                        Last edited by OrganizationXV; November 16th, 2019, 05:58 PM.
                                        Originally posted by Wade
                                        Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

                                        Comment

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