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is abortion murder?

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    #41
    Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post
    if abortion is murder, blowjobs are cannibalism
    see argument #2

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      #42
      Originally posted by Helly View Post
      that j-pan thing, it's made me revisit this question. I'm still on the fence about it for the most part, but taking a look at what argumentation could be used for the pro-life angle has made me realize it is much less ambiguous and far more consistent than the pro-choice alternative.....after all, there is no clear-cut distinction between an embryo and an infant, everyone just kind of draws this arbitrary line about "consciousness", which is something we still don't fully understand to this day, or says something strange about self-sustainability when that metric is literally never applied to anything else in life. An embryo is to an infant what an infant is to an adult; a developmental stage, with a fairly obvious future. This is a pretty clear distinction from a lone sperm or unfertilized egg, which are two separate parts with no obvious future. Thus, when using a condom or menstruating or what have you, you can't really say you're "murdering" a being as there is no distinguishable entity being extinguished.

      "But what about miscarriages? Are those murder, as well?"

      Again, I haven't had much time to think about this, but I would say that it's probably not....at least, not unless the female knew she was pregnant and knew of a way that the miscarriage could have been avoided. It'd be like having a baby in your care die due to negligence, basically.

      Those are some of my thoughts, anyway.....how about you guys??? lets get this firestorm started =)
      I think abortion is murder in most cases. I think there are exceptions, like if the unborn baby is horribly deformed or would be mentally incapacitated, then it is mercy to kill it and prevent it from suffering in this life being horribly disabled.

      However, this is not the case for most abortions. Most of the time it is just lazy parents who want to do away with the innocent unborn life.

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        #43
        Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post
        if abortion is murder, blowjobs are cannibalism

        Comment


          #44
          Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

          By your own metric, killing a grown man would be worse than killing a toddler. Since they have no real goals or aspirations and their death would only affect their immediate family. Pretty sure nobody in the world thinks that is the case, though, so...

          As far as parents are concerned, the father's agreement (or disagreement) is moot. Never mind him having to agree to it; the mother isn't even obligated to tell him by law. The father is, however, legally bound to support a child that he does not want. If he wants the kid and she doesn't: too bad. If he doesn't want the kid and she does: too bad. Apparently, agency only matters if you're female.
          Why would the father get a say during the pregnancy? The mother is practically giving up months of her life, going through changes she’s probably never experienced, and has to actually give birth to the child, while the father can range from a glorified sperm donor to a glorified caretaker. On an individual level, the two parents should discuss what they want together — especially if they’re in a relationship — but giving the father a say legally is pretty ridiculous.

          On the other hand, I can see what you’re saying after it’s born, but at that point, there’s already a living breathing child on this planet, and whether or not a father or mother gets “agency” doesn’t really matter anymore. Not everything had to be fair, but it’s not solely cause they’re female.

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            #45
            Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

            Nice meme, but there's this thing called "child support." Do look it up.

            And no, a guy can't hit it and quit if it she decides to raise the child herself; that's literally the fucking point, you dumb-ass. How nonexistent is your reading comprehension?
            Because we all know that solves everything.

            So you are in favor of abortion? Why do you always do this? You take a stance then contradict it and leave by saying "you don't know how to read" which really means "you don't know what I am thinking in my mind but since I always want to be right even when I am wrong I'll just say you don't know x or y".

            Originally posted by Helly;n542091
            Also, lol @ "I'm busy". You admit you have no life and go to many forums, and in the same post lie about having real things to do, which one is it you piece of trash. Lmao. Go work on your fictitious "dream" instead of wasting your time lying to us about how important you are.

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              #46
              Originally posted by Augustus Caesar View Post
              the father can range from a glorified sperm donor to a glorified caretaker.
              As opposed to what, exactly? Being a glorified incubator or glorified live-in nanny? If you genuinely believe a father isn't just as important in the actual rearing of a child, hence being deserving of a say by any logical framework, you've been watching too many Lifetime movies.

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                #47
                Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

                As opposed to what, exactly? Being a glorified incubator or glorified live-in nanny? If you genuinely believe a father isn't just as important in the actual rearing of a child, hence being deserving of a say by any logical framework, you've been watching too many Lifetime movies.
                lol @ glorified incubator, but obviously a father has a lot to do during the actual raising of a child. That doesn’t mean that he should be given a legal say in regards to the pregnancy, however. Fact of the matter is that a pregnancy doesn’t directly affect a father as much as a mother, and that’s just how it is. Also didn’t say he shouldn’t get a say at all, just that it shouldn’t be forced through the law.

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                  #48
                  Originally posted by Augustus Caesar View Post

                  lol @ glorified incubator, but obviously a father has a lot to do during the actual raising of a child. That doesn’t mean that he should be given a legal say in regards to the pregnancy, however. Fact of the matter is that a pregnancy doesn’t directly affect a father as much as a mother, and that’s just how it is. Also didn’t say he shouldn’t get a say at all, just that it shouldn’t be forced through the law.
                  If their input isn't enforced by law, then it's not really an input in any meaningful way. It's just an opinion. They already have a right to one of those.

                  Comment


                    #49

                    Originally posted by Helly View Post

                    If their input isn't enforced by law, then it's not really an input in any meaningful way. It's just an opinion. They already have a right to one of those.
                    Yeah, that’s true.
                    Last edited by Augustus Caesar; September 11th, 2019, 10:24 PM.

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by Augustus Caesar View Post

                      lol @ glorified incubator, but obviously a father has a lot to do during the actual raising of a child. That doesn’t mean that he should be given a legal say in regards to the pregnancy, however. Fact of the matter is that a pregnancy doesn’t directly affect a father as much as a mother, and that’s just how it is. Also didn’t say he shouldn’t get a say at all, just that it shouldn’t be forced through the law.
                      Yeah, the government forcing a woman to carry a baby to term (which she doesn't even have to raise herself if she doesn't want to, incidentally) for nine months is "unreasonable," but forcing a man to be responsible for the financial well-being of a child he doesn't want (whom he may not even have custodial rights of) for 18 years is definitely acceptable. The double standards are unreal, and frankly, disgusting.
                      Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; September 13th, 2019, 04:01 AM.

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                        #51
                        Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

                        Yeah, the government forcing a woman to carry a baby to term (which she doesn't even have to raise herself if she doesn't want to, incidentally) for nine months is "unreasonable," but forcing a man to be responsible for the financial well-being of a child he doesn't want (whom he may not even have custodial rights of) for 18 years is definitely acceptable. The double standards are unreal, and frankly, disgusting.
                        It's not acceptable in the sense that it's "fair" or not, but not everything is meant to be fair, sometimes pragmatism is more important. By the time that a father should have a say, there's already a child on the planet. How fair is it to them to deny them a father figure, because he didn't have a "choice"? How fair is it to them to deny them a source of income, and possibly force the government to interfere because the father didn't have a "choice"?

                        Like I said earlier, there are a different set of circumstances between a mother getting an abortion and a father dropping out of the life of his kid. Sure, it may be a double standard, but not everything can be fair.

                        Comment


                          #52
                          Originally posted by Augustus Caesar View Post

                          It's not acceptable in the sense that it's "fair" or not, but not everything is meant to be fair, sometimes pragmatism is more important. By the time that a father should have a say, there's already a child on the planet. How fair is it to them to deny them a father figure, because he didn't have a "choice"? How fair is it to them to deny them a source of income, and possibly force the government to interfere because the father didn't have a "choice"?

                          Like I said earlier, there are a different set of circumstances between a mother getting an abortion and a father dropping out of the life of his kid. Sure, it may be a double standard, but not everything can be fair.
                          Not everything can be fair, so we should acquiesce and allow unfair behaviors to persist unfettered instead of spreading awareness? Nice. Sounds like you would've been a real go-getter for MLK back in the day. You're probably ambivalent about parental custody defaulting to the mother during divorce proceedings too.

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                            #53
                            Originally posted by Augustus Caesar View Post

                            It's not acceptable in the sense that it's "fair" or not, but not everything is meant to be fair, sometimes pragmatism is more important. By the time that a father should have a say, there's already a child on the planet. How fair is it to them to deny them a father figure, because he didn't have a "choice"? How fair is it to them to deny them a source of income, and possibly force the government to interfere because the father didn't have a "choice"?

                            Like I said earlier, there are a different set of circumstances between a mother getting an abortion and a father dropping out of the life of his kid. Sure, it may be a double standard, but not everything can be fair.
                            Wait, are you arguing for abortion or for dads walking out?
                            Originally posted by Wade
                            Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

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                              #54
                              Meanwhile; at The Legion of Doom Trump Tower


                              Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; September 16th, 2019, 12:34 PM.

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                                #55
                                no it is not murder. Simple!

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                                  #56
                                  Unbelievably transparent smear campaign against Kavanaugh continues.

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post
                                    Unbelievably transparent smear campaign against Kavanaugh continues.
                                    Weird thread to post that in, but okay.

                                    It's kinda weird, too, because he's not even that biased of a judge. He leans right, but he's sided with the left on a relative lot.
                                    Originally posted by Wade
                                    Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

                                    Comment


                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
                                      no it is not murder. Simple!
                                      Give me your reason why.

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                                        Weird thread to post that in, but okay.

                                        It's kinda weird, too, because he's not even that biased of a judge. He leans right, but he's sided with the left on a relative lot.
                                        https://www.newsweek.com/christine-b...-1458217?amp=1

                                        And yeah, Kavanaugh hadn't even hinted at overturning/repealing RvW afaIk. They were just afraid he might. If he chooses to do so now, that will be entirely on them; a classic case of just deserts.
                                        Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; September 17th, 2019, 03:28 AM.

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

                                          https://www.newsweek.com/christine-b...-1458217?amp=1

                                          And yeah, Kavanaugh hadn't even hinted at overturning/repealing RvW afaIk. They were just afraid he might. If he chooses to do so now, that will be entirely on them; a classic case of just deserts.
                                          Well fuck, I thought you were talking about the classmate that said he saw Kavanaugh take his dick out. That's just depressing.
                                          Originally posted by Wade
                                          Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

                                          Comment

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