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Is Racial Pride acceptable?

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    Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post
    What you actually bother to do given those circumstances. So if someone goes on to college, gets that hard ass degree, gets that top job, has to pay off the mountain of debt, and decides to take pride in getting to where he is, I'll consider that perfectly reasonable.
    Assuming many variables here, lol.
    1. Assuming they were born wealthy or in a family with enough money to go to college
    2. Assuming they were born in a country with free education, if they don't have the money
    3. Assuming they had the right upbringing or were born with the right personality traits in order to be goal-driven and determined
    4. Assuming they have the intelligence to get a degree no matter how much effort they put into it

    So not only do you assume place of birth, upbringing and wealth, you also assume that everyone is equally intelligent or that everyone has the potential to be intelligent, which is complete asinine nonsense. Pick up some random kid from Somalia with a sub 60 IQ and teach him astrophysics. I don't care if this is an uncomfortable thought for you, but if you get far in life, then your genetics and upbringing are almost entirely to blame. You haven't carved any path for yourself, you've followed the path that was carved for you.

    Being proud of one's race is no different than being proud of one's country, something I don't think you're against. It's a single individual feeling a connection to a collective that objectively defines his identity.

    Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post
    Guess I just get looooaaaaaaddddssss of pride from that guy...
    I know you're being facetious, but I don't throw the word "respect" around lightly. If I respect someone, I'll likely have a close connection to them and will feel some kind of pride if they succeed. That's why friends feel pride in each other. Courtesy is one thing, respect is another.

    Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post
    "well, it's only circumstance that you had any family at all and weren't born in a literal dumpster in the middle of the Pacific ocean, so your pride in that achievement has the same exact worth as that racist's pride in his skin color over there."
    It's entirely circumstance that you were born in a developed country, with a good family and with enough intelligence to get the degree you wanted, yes. It is entirely the same, you're making an arbitrary distinction because you don't like the thought that everything you have or will ever have, be it a result of your hard work and effort or not, are only possible due to predetermined factors at birth.

    Also, equating "pride in one's race" to "racist" tells me you're arguing in bad faith. I don't particularly care, but I'm calling you out regardless.
    Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
    Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

    Comment


      Originally posted by DokTOR. View Post
      Being proud of one's race is no different than being proud of one's country, something I don't think you're against.
      ...

      Oh hey, my opinion is still the same.

      Treating such pride as equal to the pride one has over their own achievements is still gay as shit...

      It's entirely circumstance that you were born in a developed country, with a good family and with enough intelligence to get the degree you wanted, yes. It is entirely the same, you're making an arbitrary distinction because you don't like the thought that everything you have or will ever have, be it a result of your hard work and effort or not, are only possible due to predetermined factors at birth.
      But do you want to know the difference between having pride in race and having pride in an achievement you did?

      In one case...you had to do something.

      *Le Gasp.*

      The other one required...nothing.

      That's just the facts. Pre-determination factored in...or not.

      To treat them as equal justifications for that pride-feel is to basically treat the effort taken to do something as equally valuable to...

      ...your race.

      Amazing.

      Comment


        Arbitrary distinction is arbitrary. Again, not any different from being proud of your intelligence, appearance or family. Saying "You should ONLY be proud of things you do with your own hands, even though I'm gonna completely and conveniently ignore the predetermined factors that paved the way" is completely, 100% arbitrary. I'm in Helly's camp, let people be proud of whatever they want.
        Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
        Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

        Comment


          Originally posted by DokTOR. View Post
          Arbitrary distinction is arbitrary. Again, not any different from being proud of your intelligence, appearance or family.
          I've seen Jared Taylor(white supremacist) make similar arguments, it's emotional manipulation at it's finest.

          Comment


            Originally posted by DokTOR. View Post

            Imagine not having a good relationship with your family lmao
            But do your parents know you're gay? Do they know you're a nationalist?

            Being proud of your skin color is the lowest form of identity. This is why it's so destructive, because it lacks any real substance. It means nothing. It's like being proud of having pointy ears, it means nothing at all. It's best to actually develop your culture isn't of going after a false image. Because guess what will happen once white people find out that they're not great because of skin color? They'll naturally collapse in self esteem. Dare I say that these incels are a sign of this. Meanwhile minorities have culture, just look at how influential black and hispanic music is. White conservative people seem to fear Mexicans and their culture so much so that they want to build a wall.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post

              You don't get what he's saying.

              He's saying he has a sense of self-love and love for his family members, but not a haughty sense of self-worth.
              This is basically describing people proud of their ethnic groups. No sane person proud of their heritage takes it in the way you two are imagining it at all, it's being proud of what you consider extensions to your family.


              This seems to be the particular nuance that white nationalist never seem to get when touting racial "pride" in comparison to black people(not calling you a white nationalist, just making a point). They come from two completely seperate places. Black people had to deal with centuries of oppression, turning on the TV and seeing minstrel shows making fun of their appearance, and overall being told "you're less than dirt because you're black." So of course, black people in turn would respond: "no, fuck you, I'm proud to be black and I love myself." Whereas when white people say it, even when it's not in a negative "white power!" tier context there always seems to be this slight sense of arrogance, as if to say "we built the world you brown lowly savages, we are above you and thus deserve to be recognized as such!" even if they aren't directly saying it. And if you think about it, it can only really come from that place of arrogance since they have no idea what it's like to be told "you suck for being white" for centuries.
              They really aren't that different at all. White pride groups have their oppression narrative as well, and they've been lambasted relentlessly since WWII even though Hitler had designated various ethnic whites for destruction. And are we really going to ignore how minority pride groups repeatedly try to credit many accomplishments to themselves? I know for a fact that you're aware of the phrase "cultural appropriation".

              Pride is inherently arrogant and egotistical in nature.

              Comment


                Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                I'm bored as shit, so I don't really care about making some novels, lol.

                Maybe Helly should drop by and start writing up some walls of texts as well, TBQH.
                For a guy who supposedly hates socialism so much, you sure seem to love getting publicly owned

                Comment


                • Cid
                  Cid commented
                  Editing a comment
                  lol

                • Kajin_Style
                  Kajin_Style commented
                  Editing a comment
                  lol

                • Max
                  Max commented
                  Editing a comment
                  lol

                Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                For a guy who supposedly hates socialism so much, you sure seem to love getting publicly owned
                ...

                Uhhh...

                Okay? Lol.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Helly View Post

                  This is basically describing people proud of their ethnic groups. No sane person proud of their heritage takes it in the way you two are imagining it at all, it's being proud of what you consider extensions to your family.
                  You mean most people proud of their *cultures I don't know anyone proud of their skin color that isn't an asshole, friends can be extended family as well.



                  They really aren't that different at all. White pride groups have their oppression narrative as well, and they've been lambasted relentlessly since WWII even though Hitler had designated various ethnic whites for destruction. And are we really going to ignore how minority pride groups repeatedly try to credit many accomplishments to themselves? I know for a fact that you're aware of the phrase "cultural appropriation".

                  Pride is inherently arrogant and egotistical in nature.
                  Only the difference is that white pride groups are full of shit, and you're talking about Eastern-Europeans and Slavs, most white nationalists reject Eastern-Euros and Slavs as "white" since they aren't shining examples of civilization. Sure, black pride groups aren't perfect and they can be shitty as well, this doesn't change the fact that they developed out of defense of racism.
                  Last edited by Tezcatlipoca; March 13th, 2019, 08:41 AM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
                    You mean most people proud of their *cultures I don't know anyone proud of their skin color that isn't an asshole, friends can be extended family as well.
                    Skin is just a proxy for ethnicity, and by extension culture. Even literal skinheads don't look favorabley upon albinos or even the Spanish.


                    Only the difference is that white pride groups are full of shit, and you're talking about Eastern-Europeans and Slavs, most white nationalists reject Eastern-Euros and Slavs as "white" since they aren't shining examples of civilization. Sure, black pride groups aren't perfect and they can be shitty as well, this doesn't change the fact that they developed out of defense of racism.
                    Except they're not, their claimed accomplishments for their groups are no less legitimate than anyone else's.

                    The rise of the alt-right was literally due to incels(not using that as a pejorative, btw) getting tired of media telling them they're bland and lame for being white.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Helly View Post
                      Even literal skinheads don't look favorabley upon albinos or even the Spanish.
                      Skinheads are fucking retarded though.



                      Comment




                        ^^^

                        Imagine walking around looking like this tweaked out butterbean thinking *hurr durr, I'm genetically superior*

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                          Skinheads are fucking retarded though.


                          not really a counter-point. If they're retarded, and even they know skin colour is just a proxy for something else, then my point is proven

                          Comment


                            Only if you're white.

                            No other race has anything to be proud of tbh

                            Well maybe asians.
                            Originally posted by Snap
                            "man you always know what to get me for my birthday, you really are a nigger"

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Sheko View Post
                              Only if you're white.

                              No other race has anything to be proud of tbh

                              Well maybe asians.
                              What if you're half-white, half-asian mixed?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                                What if you're half-white, half-asian mixed?
                                rep that pride
                                Originally posted by Snap
                                "man you always know what to get me for my birthday, you really are a nigger"

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Helly View Post

                                  Skin is just a proxy for ethnicity, and by extension culture. Even literal skinheads don't look favorabley upon albinos or even the Spanish.
                                  Nilotes and Ghanians have very different cultures despite being the same skin color, don't even get me started on asia. Literally no one but a moron bases his entire identity but his skin color.



                                  Except they're not, their claimed accomplishments for their groups are no less legitimate than anyone else's.

                                  The rise of the alt-right was literally due to incels(not using that as a pejorative, btw) getting tired of media telling them they're bland and lame for being white.
                                  African Americans don't even "claim" accomplishments, they just love themselves in response to everyone hating them.

                                  The rise of the alt-right was due to far-righters seeing an opportunity to manipulate young isolated white men into voting Republican against their own best interest. You are half right though, they are called "reactionaries" for a reason.
                                  Last edited by Tezcatlipoca; March 14th, 2019, 09:47 AM.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Sheko View Post
                                    Only if you're white.

                                    No other race has anything to be proud of tbh

                                    Well maybe asians.
                                    What about the jews

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Max View Post

                                      What about the jews
                                      Well we're basically white asians, so...

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                                        Well we're basically white asians, so...
                                        but the real jews are black

                                        Comment

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