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Is Racial Pride acceptable?

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    Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

    That's irrespective of the problem. "Is pride a good thing or not" is not really the main contention.

    Again...

    Since pride is what people feel in regards to what they feel is a valuable thing (in regards to themselves, or others), what does it mean to consider two things equally worthy of such a sentiment, regardless of the value of having the sentiment at all?

    What would it mean other than what is basically the equalization of the value of the two things in question?

    Because if you can't come up with an answer to that question (you just dodged it, actually)...

    I'm just gonna assume I'm right here.
    Goddannit RCA

    If pride has a value of 0 to me, then anything equal to or greater than 0 would be sufficient to requisite pride, be it clothing, talent, a new dog, i dont care lol

    Comment


      What is this thread? Another session of Helly bashing kids?

      Anyway... on topic --- Racial pride is fine, just don't be a dick about it. Spencer would've been fine in my book with his racial pride if he didn't try to oppress other people with it or meme history. Everyone's race is awesome but it is silly to be proud of that and not of any of your own accomplishments instead.

      It only starts becoming dangerous when said pride encourages tribalism because that kind of tribalism is blinding and misguiding at best while at worse can be lethal to others.

      Comment


        Lets accept for the sake of argument that humans really do need some form of tribalism to function--you don't need race or racial pride to have "tribes."
        A "tribe" (i.e. "my people") can be any group that experiences a sense of kinship over some perceived significant commonality.

        Guys who smoked a ton of weed and hung out with hippies and kinksters in college--you're "my people." Lets be kin.

        Guys who liberalized and adopted progressive social values in their 20s after being raised in a conservative religious family--you're "my people." Lets be kin.

        Guys who spent so much of their life playing Fire Emblem and Pokemon that they get obscure inside jokes about the fandom--you're "my people." Lets be kin.





        Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; March 11th, 2019, 11:31 AM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

          Interesting.

          Could have sworn that using your own two hands to achieve things was...technically something you had control over...but...I guess I was wrong.
          Why should the asian kid born with a high IQ and into a rich family with a top tier education since childhood and tuition fees taken care of by mommy and daddy be proud of his achievements when he had every advantage since birth to succeed compared to the retarded black kid born in the ghetto
          Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
          Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

          Comment


            Also this, "hurr durr you should only feel pride in your own achievements" argument is beyond retarded. Don't you people take pride in your family? What did you do to earn them besides being born? Are you appropriating their achievements as well? Lol

            Rca lookin like one of those neckbeards who say handsome people shouldn't be proud of their appearance since they didn't work for it lol
            Last edited by DokTOR.; March 11th, 2019, 12:39 PM.
            Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
            Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

            Comment


            • Cid
              Cid commented
              Editing a comment
              No, I don't take pride in my family.

            I'm proud of having skin and of being proud

            Comment


              Originally posted by DokTOR. View Post
              Rca lookin like one of those neckbeards who say handsome people shouldn't be proud of their appearance since they didn't work for it lol
              In order to be handsome, you actually have to put in SOME sort of effort to maintain a particular appearance, along with the fact that it also depends on what others think is handsome.

              You don't have to put in any effort to come pre-packaged with something at birth, fam (i.e, your skin color).

              And in regards to family...

              My feelings toward them are one of love, gratitude, and respect, but not some haughty sense of pride that by virtue of my family being awesome, I am therefore inherently bestowed with awesomeness as well.

              Unless you call "respecting your family" "pride."

              Ultimately in the end, my sense of value can only truly be achieved by what I am, more specifically what I've done, not who my parents or other family members are, no matter how much I love them.

              They opened doors for opportunities, absolutely, I can't deny that...I'd quite literally be stuck in a shithole if it weren't for them, but I can't say they're all that's responsible for where I am, because I had to choose to walk through those doors, and put in the effort to get to where I am.
              Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; March 11th, 2019, 09:30 PM.

              Comment


                Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                My feelings toward them are one of love, gratitude, and respect, but not some haughty sense of pride that by virtue of my family being awesome, I am therefore inherently bestowed with awesomeness as well.
                .
                Bro

                Come on

                You're just being deliberately obtuse at this point. There is absolutely no fucking way you made it all the way to college without ever once encountering the sentence "I'm proud of my [family member] for [reason]".

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Helly View Post

                  Bro

                  Come on

                  You're just being deliberately obtuse at this point. There is absolutely no fucking way you made it all the way to college without ever once encountering the sentence "I'm proud of my [family member] for [reason]".
                  When you say you're proud of someone, typically that's rooted in a sense of respect for their achievements.

                  It's not something you say that's meant to prop yourself up when it's in response to somebody achieving something, which is 99% of the time it's said.

                  And in that sense, sure, I'm proud of my family (well, except one family member).

                  But that's about it.
                  Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; March 11th, 2019, 03:00 PM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post
                    Guys who liberalized and adopted progressive social values in their 20s after being raised in a conservative religious family--you're "my people." Lets be kin.
                    You called?

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                      When you say you're proud of someone, typically that's rooted in a sense of respect for their achievements.

                      It's not something you say that's meant to prop yourself up when it's in response to somebody achieving something, which is 99% of the time it's said.

                      And in that sense, sure, I'm proud of my family (well, except one family member).

                      But that's about it.
                      This is just flat-out wrong on so many levels, I honestly don't even know where to start.

                      Respecting someone's achievements and being proud of them are two totally different things. You wouldn't say you're "proud" of a heart surgeon you've just met, or you're "proud" of Koenigsegg for supposedly taking the top speed record twice in a row, not unless you have some sort of kinship to either of those things or you identify with them in some way.
                      Last edited by Helly; March 11th, 2019, 03:34 PM.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Cid View Post

                        You called?
                        Like I'd legit think of you and Orgy and Peth as "my people" before thinking of:


                        Comment


                        • Cid
                          Cid commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Well... Orgy, Peth, and myself are also pretty dang awesome. So it's not really a fair comparison.

                        Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                        In order to be handsome, you actually have to put in SOME sort of effort to maintain a particular appearance
                        exactly, like a skincare routine

                        Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n529802
                        Do you even step back and ask why a grown person is getting triggered over this? Why half the population is getting regularly triggered?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                          In order to be handsome, you actually have to put in SOME sort of effort to maintain a particular appearance, along with the fact that it also depends on what others think is handsome.
                          No, in order to be presentable, you have to put in some effort to maintain your appearance. In order to be handsome/attractive, you need to be born with the right features. And don't come at me with your "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" bullshit; there are certain facial and bodily features that people traditionally consider as conventionally attractive that are solely dependent on genetics.

                          You don't have to put in any effort to come pre-packaged with something at birth, fam (i.e, your skin color).
                          Almost everything comes pre-packaged at birth fam: your gender, your nationality, your skin color, your family, your intelligence, your appearance, your personality to a certain extent, your financial situation and potential upbringing. You have less control over your life than you claim.

                          Unless you call "respecting your family" "pride."
                          Yes.

                          Ultimately in the end, my sense of value can only truly be achieved by what I am, more specifically what I've done, not who my parents or other family members are, no matter how much I love them.
                          Pride =/= sense of value.

                          Even so, you're wrong. History has shown time and time again that someone's family gives them certain political or social privileges regardless of whatever effort they've put into their life; the noble's value is much higher than the peasant's, Barron Trump's value is much higher than yours. I don't care if you consider this to be "right" or not, that's just how life is.
                          Last edited by DokTOR.; March 11th, 2019, 03:54 PM.
                          Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
                          Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by The Poster Formerly Known as Teal View Post

                            exactly, like a skincare routine
                            Is sex with men as good as it is with women?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by DokTOR. View Post
                              Don't you people take pride in your family?
                              No?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Helly View Post

                                Bro

                                Come on

                                You're just being deliberately obtuse at this point. There is absolutely no fucking way you made it all the way to college without ever once encountering the sentence "I'm proud of my [family member] for [reason]".
                                You don't get what he's saying.

                                He's saying he has a sense of self-love and love for his family members, but not a haughty sense of self-worth.

                                This seems to be the particular nuance that white nationalist never seem to get when touting racial "pride" in comparison to black people(not calling you a white nationalist, just making a point). They come from two completely seperate places. Black people had to deal with centuries of oppression, turning on the TV and seeing minstrel shows making fun of their appearance, and overall being told "you're less than dirt because you're black." So of course, black people in turn would respond: "no, fuck you, I'm proud to be black and I love myself." Whereas when white people say it, even when it's not in a negative "white power!" tier context there always seems to be this slight sense of arrogance, as if to say "we built the world you brown lowly savages, we are above you and thus deserve to be recognized as such!" even if they aren't directly saying it. And if you think about it, it can only really come from that place of arrogance since they have no idea what it's like to be told "you suck for being white" for centuries.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post

                                  You don't get what he's saying.

                                  He's saying he has a sense of self-love and love for his family members, but not a haughty sense of self-worth.

                                  This seems to be the particular nuance that white nationalist never seem to get when touting racial "pride" in comparison to black people(not calling you a white nationalist, just making a point). They come from two completely seperate places. Black people had to deal with centuries of oppression, turning on the TV and seeing minstrel shows making fun of their appearance, and overall being told "you're less than dirt because you're black." So of course, black people in turn would respond: "no, fuck you, I'm proud to be black and I love myself." Whereas when white people say it, even when it's not in a negative "white power!" tier context there always seems to be this slight sense of arrogance, as if to say "we built the world you brown lowly savages, we are above you and thus deserve to be recognized as such!" even if they aren't directly saying it. And if you think about it, it can only really come from that place of arrogance since they have no idea what it's like to be told "you suck for being white" for centuries.
                                  OK, but everyone espousing H-white Pride isn't automatically racist. First, they need to fail the hair follicle test.

                                  Comment


                                  • DokTOR.
                                    DokTOR. commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    o ye, how good is the netflix adaptation of that comic you have there

                                  • Oneiros
                                    Oneiros commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    DokTOR.
                                    I enjoyed it, but I'm not so sure you will given your thoughts on KnY. Our tastes clearly aren't that aligned. But you could always give it a try; it's only 10 eps, at least until the next season drops.

                                  Originally posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
                                  No?
                                  Imagine not having a good relationship with your family lmao
                                  Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
                                  Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by DokTOR. View Post

                                    Almost everything comes pre-packaged at birth fam: your gender, your nationality, your skin color, your family, your intelligence, your appearance, your personality to a certain extent, your financial situation and potential upbringing. You have less control over your life than you claim.
                                    Even in some of those you have wiggle room (financial situation and upbringing can still take your input and change things, no matter how minutely). You know what you do have control over, though?

                                    What you actually bother to do given those circumstances. So if someone goes on to college, gets that hard ass degree, gets that top job, has to pay off the mountain of debt, and decides to take pride in getting to where he is, I'll consider that perfectly reasonable.

                                    If someone takes pride in being born a certain race...

                                    Yeah.

                                    I'm gonna call that for what it is.

                                    Dumb as shit in comparison, lol.

                                    Yes.
                                    I also have a certain level of respect for Joe across the street who works to put food on the table for his family every day. Maybe not the most personal of respects, probably just an acquaintance, but I do have it for good ol' Joe.

                                    Guess I just get looooaaaaaaddddssss of pride from that guy...

                                    Pride =/= sense of value.
                                    Pride is the sense that something, usually something you yourself have, is valuable, and having good feels about that.

                                    Originally posted by Google

                                    Noun:

                                    1. a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

                                    2. confidence and self-respect as expressed by members of a group, typically one that has been socially marginalized, on the basis of their shared identity, culture, and experience.

                                    Verb:

                                    1. be especially proud of (a particular quality or skill).
                                    ^I mean, this basically confirms what I've been saying about it.

                                    In all cases, it's taking a sense of [positive feeling] over something. Why do that if you don't believe there's some sort of value in that something?

                                    Even so, you're wrong. History has shown time and time again that someone's family gives them certain political or social privileges regardless of whatever effort they've put into their life; the noble's value is much higher than the peasant's, Barron Trump's value is much higher than yours. I don't care if you consider this to be "right" or not, that's just how life is.
                                    All that means is that some people have families that grant them special privileges and others that don't.

                                    In the case of the families that don't...which is what I'm talking about...when someone in that family achieves something, let's say getting into college, getting that hard ass degree, and landing that good ass job so they can pay off that mountain of debt, they earned the right to feel pride about it because they put in at least some sort of effort, some sort of explicit physical or mental effort, and you can't tell them "well, it's only circumstance that you had any family at all and weren't born in a literal dumpster in the middle of the Pacific ocean, so your pride in that achievement has the same exact worth as that racist's pride in his skin color over there."

                                    Well...actually you could tell them.

                                    But you might as well just call their achievement worthless instead, lol.

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