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    How is Harris above Bernie?

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      Originally posted by Cid View Post
      Again, Bernie told his supporters to go out and support Hillary. And they did. Your initial statement was that Bernie couldn't spur his supporters into action, but he clearly did... So you're wrong in that regard, for what's worth. Which isn't much because... What does him being unable to convince a bunch of paid, party loyalists to switch their votes from Clinton to him have to do with him winning the general against Trump? There's no connection there whatsoever.
      Actually, he didn't. Unless you're inadvertently admitting that Hillary loyalists and would-be Bernie voters combined could only beat "the least successful, least liked, and least intelligent [to-be] President the nation has ever had" by a (relatively) meager three million votes. In which case: L-O-L.

      That is to say, A.) Sanders was incapable of swaying his supporters to vote Hillary (he certainly didn't succeed with me), or B.) he's just not as popular as you think he is. Therefore, him (never mind literal whos like Harris, Booker, or Buttigieg) "easily beating Trump" is nothing more than wishful thinking.

      Again, not that it matters, but who I voted for shows that I ultimately know what I'm saying and doing. As opposed to giving Trump another vote or wasting my vote by giving it to Hillary, who couldn't win Alabama, I gave it to a third party in hopes of bolstering it's numbers some so it has a better chance at securing federal funding in 2020. Granted the chances of the Greens earning enough votes in Alabama to get any funding was small, it was infinitely better than Hillary's chances of winning Alabama. So I made the right choice... You made a protest vote that ultimately meant nothing to everyone involved except yourself. So...
      Does it? I outright warned you prior to the fact that your vote would be a complete waste and guess what? It was a complete waste. You didn't secure federal funding. You didn't even come close. You were off by almost 4% (out of the required 5%). Your vote meant nothing at all and you're deluding yourself into thinking otherwise.

      As someone who's actually served on a jury with a much smaller sample size -- 12 people -- I can tell you that one vote by itself is utterly irrelevant, at least as far as civil court is concerned. Even two are. It's only when three or more disagree with the majority that your vote counts for anything at all. Thus, thinking your one vote could possibly have any discernible effect on an election with tens of millions of votes is hubris at its best. The government's admittedly clever way of tricking hapless suckers into supporting a shitty, broken system by letting them believe their vote actually matters. My "protest" vote might've only mattered to me, but at least it mattered.

      Can you really say the same?

      It's actually a roundabout way of saying that the democrats would have to do something incredibly stupid, like nominating a candidate that struggles to energize 80% of his party, to lose 2020 against the least successful, least liked, and least intelligent President the nation has ever had.
      If you genuinely believe Biden struggles to energize 80% of his party when a much more unlikable candidate like Hillary won nearly 66 million votes in the general, I'm probably wasting my time. Am I wasting my time?

      At this juncture, polls are only good for looking at trends in popularity. They're always important, though. Those trends, when observed for months can show how likely it is that a candidate can stay in the race. Biden is declining in national polls and has hit his lowest point since he announced his candidacy. But it wasn't just his lackluster performance in the debates. If you go look at 90 days worth of polling data you'll find Biden has steadily declining in popularity since a couple days after he announced. Bernie had a fairly sharp drop immediately following Biden's announcement but then he as well as every other candidate, basically leveled out and remained fairly stable for the next several months.

      So yeah, man. The polls are important. And the polls are clearly showing that Biden is flaming out.
      https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/07/polit...oll/index.html

      OH NONONONONO.
      Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; July 9th, 2019, 06:09 AM.

      Comment


      • Cid
        Cid commented
        Editing a comment
        You got a lot of stuff wrong there. But honestly, after two days and a long week. I can't be arsed to reply. So I guess enjoy your victory.

      • Lord L'Zoril
        Lord L'Zoril commented
        Editing a comment
        Concession accepted. :)

      Par usual, the methodology of that polling is garbage.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post
        Lol, you give our people waaay too much credit. Americans being retarded is a common "mis"conception around the world.
        While Americans being retarded isn't at all a common misconception (most Americans can't even point out the most powerful European nations on the map), that wasn't really my point.

        elected for any reason beyond BTFO'ing Trump
        Yeah, no shit. I think beating Trump will outweigh your preferred candidate not being elected for a lot of voters.

        There's having a sharp tongue; then, there's being able to crush people's very souls. Just ask Hillary, Warren, Christie, and Jeb Bush, lol. A flippant "Jamaican slave-owner" remark would probably end Harris' entire career.
        You're giving Trump's high school tier trash talk way too much credit.

        Dry, stoic candidates just won't cut it anymore. You would have to unironically out-meme the human meme to have a chance in this day and age. :|
        I can't tell if this is a serious opinion or not.
        Question: Do you think Joe Biden isn't a dry, generic establishment democratic?

        Because he was an unknown quantity at the time who quickly established himself as the token black candidate.
        Obama wasn't the first black candidate. Being black helped, but Obama was a good talker and he came at a good time where people were tired of old white Republicans running the country down and wanted "change". You can argue people will be just as hungry for change in the current election.

        And they're going to almost certainly lose if they push anyone other than Biden. He is the safest choice by far, especially if he campaigns in states Hillary effectively handed over to Trump and chooses a non-white and/or non-male running mate.
        According to what?

        Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post
        Therefore, him (never mind literal whos like Harris, Booker, or Buttigieg) "easily beating Trump" is nothing more than wishful thinking.
        I don't really understand your logic. If somebody as disliked as Hillary can win the popular vote, why can't candidates who are steadily gaining popularity beat Trump?
        Last edited by Raniero; July 9th, 2019, 07:24 PM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Raniero View Post
          Yeah, no shit. I think beating Trump will outweigh your preferred candidate not being elected for a lot of voters.
          My preferred candidate? To be clear, I don't like Joe Biden. I don't even like the Democratic Party.

          You're giving Trump's high school tier trash talk way too much credit.
          But passively-aggressively calling someone a racist makes them Jeff Ross, right?

          I can't tell if this is a serious opinion or not.
          Question: Do you think Joe Biden isn't a dry, generic establishment democratic?
          Well, no, but "Uncle Joe" perfectly complements practically every Biden still ever. Ironically, the one thing that could've destroyed him may very well save him.

          Obama wasn't the first black candidate. Being black helped, but Obama was a good talker and he came at a good time where people were tired of old white Republicans running the country down and wanted "change". You can argue people will be just as hungry for change in the current election.
          I already pointed out that Obama was a good orator and had charisma, whereas Hillary was found wanting in both respects.
          Yes, he represented "change" because he was black and not some generic old white guy (or gal)... Which is all the more funny to me given just how moderate he really was, but I digress.

          Incidentally, Trump (despite being a rich, old white guy) stands for "change" more so than someone like Warren. Aside from being skewed further left more than most and having a vagina, she's virtually indistinguishable from any other Democrat. Following political shifts, she'd be the template for "establishment Democrat" 30 years from now.

          Conversely, Trump, for worse or for worse, is a one-of-a-kind.

          According to what?
          Common sense. Most people in America, regardless of their party affiliation, are moderate. The far-right and far-left are fringe groups and rightfully so. America isn't ready for someone like Sanders or Harris, just like they wouldn't be ready for Trump if he actually were Hitler Jr. Now, granted, our perception of "right" and "left" probably varies from the general perception.

          That is to say, we're skewed acutely to the right in most aspects and acutely to the left in the rest.

          I don't really understand your logic. If somebody as disliked as Hillary can win the popular vote, why can't candidates who are steadily gaining popularity beat Trump?
          Uh, because the projections show them being bodied by Trump if the general were to be held right now...? lol

          Comment


            Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post

            My preferred candidate? To be clear, I don't like Joe Biden. I don't even like the Democratic Party.
            Not you specifically. I was speaking in general.

            But passively-aggressively calling someone a racist makes them Jeff Ross, right?
            You're taking it that way. From my interpretation, she was calling him ignorant and insensitive (which he was), which isn't the same thing as calling him racist.

            Well, no, but "Uncle Joe" perfectly complements practically every Biden still ever. Ironically, the one thing that could've destroyed him may very well save him.
            What?

            I already pointed out that Obama was a good orator and had charisma, whereas Hillary was found wanting in both respects.
            Yes, he represented "change" because he was black and not some generic old white guy (or gal)... Which is all the more funny to me given just how moderate he really was, but I digress.

            Incidentally, Trump (despite being a rich, old white guy) stands for "change" more so than someone like Warren. Aside from being skewed further left more than most and having a vagina, she's virtually indistinguishable from any other Democrat.
            Trump's change is surface level. Trump is ultimately a GOP shill policy wise, because he doesn't really have standout policies of his own outside of the wall meme. The same can't be said for someone like Warren who actually has comprehensible plans, whether you agree with them or not.

            Following political shifts, she'd be the template for "establishment Democrat" 30 years from now.
            That's always been the case though.

            Conversely, Trump, for worse or for worse, is a one-of-a-kind.
            Which doesn't equate to elect-ability or popularity.

            Common sense. Most people in America, regardless of their party affiliation, are moderate. The far-right and far-left are fringe groups and rightfully so. America isn't ready for someone like Sanders or Harris, just like they wouldn't be ready for Trump if he actually were Hitler Jr. Now, granted, our perception of "right" and "left" probably varies from the general perception.
            This works under the assumption that a lot of moderates who hate Trump wouldn't vote against him (and any democrat who wins the nomination will beat Trump in minority votes and the highly educated votes,100%) even if Biden isn't the candidate or that young voters (who are decidedly less moderate) won't get out and vote. The real problem is that Biden is an easier target than the rest of his competition due to his mediocre political career and as shown in his debate, he flounders. He's not young and he doesn't inspire much excitement. He'll just get torn apart like Hillary.

            Again, like I said, people were saying America would never vote for somebody like Trump, but it happened. I wouldn't write anything off.

            That is to say, we're skewed acutely to the right in most aspects and acutely to the left in the rest.
            The candidates support things most Americans agree with though. Everybody having affordable healthcare is a sentiment most Americans share. The main issue is the application of it.

            Uh, because the projections show them being bodied by Trump if the general were to be held right now...? lol
            Well our sources are different then, because I've seen projections showing most of the front runners would body Trump. You said projections and polls don't mean anything earlier. The final vote isn't until next year and it's still early. You can't draw a solid conclusion from any projection when there are months of this election cycle left.
            Last edited by Raniero; July 11th, 2019, 07:49 PM.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Raniero View Post
              You're taking it that way. From my interpretation, she was calling him ignorant and insensitive (which he was), which isn't the same thing as calling him racist.
              Even if that were true... He later served as the deputy to a black president, so calling him "ignorant" and "insensitive" about some shit he did 50 years ago (when her own unabashedly conservative victories can be dated much more recently) is pretty ignorant, not to mention hypocritical.

              What?
              He makes for a good meme. As "good" a meme can be, anyway. The metaphorical bar is essentially level with the ground.

              Trump's change is surface level. Trump is ultimately a GOP shill policy wise, because he doesn't really have standout policies of his own outside of the wall meme. The same can't be said for someone like Warren who actually has comprehensible plans, whether you agree with them or not.
              All the "legitimate" candidates do. Even so, Warren has unabashedly lifted from Sanders' platform.

              And I disagree. Trump finna start a trade war with China since they are behind global warming, lol. Eat shit, Demoncrats.

              That's always been the case though.
              Then you are also in agreement that Obama wasn't some prophetic harbinger of change?

              Which doesn't equate to elect-ability or popularity.
              It kinda does. He was elected because he was the meme candidate.

              This works under the assumption that a lot of moderates who hate Trump wouldn't vote against him (and any democrat who wins the nomination will beat Trump in minority votes and the highly educated votes,100%) even if Biden isn't the candidate or that young voters (who are decidedly less moderate) won't get out and vote. The real problem is that Biden is an easier target than the rest of his competition due to his mediocre political career and as shown in his debate, he flounders. He's not young and he doesn't inspire much excitement. He'll just get torn apart like Hillary.
              Name one other candidate who "inspires excitement." Also don't see why being old matters. Sanders is as old as Father Time and he still got the youth vote (though admittedly, his support is waning this time around). Mediocre political career? Uh, he was the V.P. of the U.S. Literally who even is his competition? lol

              Again, like I said, people were saying America would never vote for somebody like Trump, but it happened. I wouldn't write anything off.
              Again, Trump isn't actually Hitler. If he were, he wouldn't have been elected. Simple as.
              Yes, despite the fact that most Americans are indeed too stupid to point out Russia on a map. We clearly have some standards.

              The candidates support things most Americans agree with though. Everybody having affordable healthcare is a sentiment most Americans share. The main issue is the application of it.
              I already pointed out that "Trumpcare" was just Obamacare re-skinned, yes.

              Well our sources are different then, because I've seen projections showing most of the front runners would body Trump. You said projections and polls don't mean anything earlier. The final vote isn't until next year and it's still early. You can't draw a solid conclusion from any projection when there are months of this election cycle left.
              Previous polls had the non-Biden and non-Sanders candidates beating Trump by ~2%; the newer polls have those same candidates losing to Trump by ~2%. Biden and Sanders also took a hit, though most projections still show Biden (and only Biden) handily winning.
              Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; July 12th, 2019, 10:02 PM.

              Comment


                Bet Rainero the only black guy in his town to vote for Trump. He gives me that old white guy vibe.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                  Bet Rainero the only black guy in his town to vote for Trump. He gives me that old white guy vibe.
                  Good to know you equate rational thinking with being white.

                  nothing racist about that at all.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by J peth View Post

                    Good to know you equate rational thinking with being white.

                    nothing racist about that at all.
                    Baby boomer detected.

                    Comment


                      So everyone voting Bernie?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Chara View Post
                        So everyone voting Bernie?
                        I think it's too early, at the moment, to decide who we're voting for. Only been one debate and half the candidates haven't released formal plans.

                        At this moment, Bernie is still my favorite candidate.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Cid View Post

                          I think it's too early, at the moment, to decide who we're voting for. Only been one debate and half the candidates haven't released formal plans.

                          At this moment, Bernie is still my favorite candidate.
                          I'll go for him unless someone better runs

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post

                            "Everyone I don't agree with is old"

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by J peth View Post
                              Edit
                              No you just happen to be old.

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