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    #61
    Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post

    Your economic ambitions are very conservative. Did you not see China has now explored the dark side of the moon and even grew crops there? This means they're testing if it's possible to live in space (growing Cotton for cloths, Potatoes for food, rapeseed (no wade,no) for oil. China will soon surpass us and all you say is "lol'.
    Son, I was at Kennedy Space Center a year ago helping with a project to grow crops in microgravity (much harder than growing crops in the moon's gravity). I don't give a shit what China is doing.

    I'm laughing at you because you think Wade's ideas are sound when they're not.

    Mining asteroids is going to be a thing in the future. And maybe even in the near future. But it won't be to bring rare metals back to Earth, which isn't economically viable. It'll be to use those asteroids as staging platforms to explore even deeper in our solar system at a fraction of the cost.

    I'm not even going to get into the rest of his loony ideas. Anybody with half a brain can see that they won't work.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Cid View Post

      Son, I was at Kennedy Space Center a year ago helping with a project to grow crops in microgravity (much harder than growing crops in the moon's gravity). I don't give a shit what China is doing.

      I'm laughing at you because you think Wade's ideas are sound when they're not.

      Mining asteroids is going to be a thing in the future. And maybe even in the near future. But it won't be to bring rare metals back to Earth, which isn't economically viable. It'll be to use those asteroids as staging platforms to explore even deeper in our solar system at a fraction of the cost.

      I'm not even going to get into the rest of his loony ideas. Anybody with half a brain can see that they won't work.
      Replicating conditions of space in a lab < actually doing the experiment in space.

      While the increase of resources on Earth might devalue them, that is not a bad thing. We need those resources now and will need them more later. You're thinking more like a CEO than a human being. Imagine if I told you that the production of phones was going to get cut because they were becoming too cheap. Sure, that would be great for corporate profits but bad for the general public. You can apply this to anything and see the same result. Books, computers, cars, etc. And while at first the cost of mining asteroids would be expensive due to lacking technology, the process would improve dramatically as private companies steal and the use the technology. And as the government upgrades the technology and other countries try and do the same, it becomes less expensive and opens a whole new world of technology and opportunities. You're simply not looking at the big picture.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
        Replicating conditions of space in a lab < actually doing the experiment in space.
        See, this is why I don't take Wade or you seriously. Because both of you show just how little you actually know with comments like this. lmao

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Cid View Post

          See, this is why I don't take Wade or you seriously. Because both of you show just how little you actually know with comments like this. lmao
          Do you honestly think that the chinese can't replicate microgravity in a lab?

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post

            Do you honestly think that the chinese can't replicate microgravity in a lab?
            Nobody can, actually.

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by Cid View Post

              Nobody can, actually.
              Yeah, just looked up where KSC is. And you probably only grew crops with fluorescent lights, right?

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post

                Yeah, just looked up where KSC is. And you probably only grew crops with fluorescent lights, right?
                ... Are you really this stupid? Am I actually going to have to explain this to you? Because I thought you were just acting dumb to try and troll.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Cid View Post

                  ... Are you really this stupid? Am I actually going to have to explain this to you? Because I thought you were just acting dumb to try and troll.
                  I'm actually confused as to what you mean. So do explain.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    And don't try to be condescending, Cid, because I have a source that can know you down with a one-two. It's really funny but I think it's humor will be lost here.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post

                      I'm actually confused as to what you mean. So do explain.
                      NASA isn't growing cotton in a lab here on Earth. They're sending seeds to the International Space Station and they're growing edible food, not cotton, in actual microgravity conditions. Ones much harsher than what they'd face on the moon or even on Mars.

                      Neither you nor Wade put any research into anything you say. Wade didn't know that metals aren't abundant in C-Type asteroids and you thought China was the only country growing plants in space. lol

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Cid View Post

                        NASA isn't growing cotton in a lab here on Earth. They're sending seeds to the International Space Station and they're growing edible food, not cotton, in actual microgravity conditions. Ones much harsher than what they'd face on the moon or even on Mars.

                        Neither you nor Wade put any research into anything you say. Wade didn't know that metals aren't abundant in C-Type asteroids and you thought China was the only country growing plants in space. lol
                        Cid, Cid, did you or did you not grow crops in microgravity in the KSC? "Son, I was at Kennedy Space Center a year ago helping with a project to grow crops in microgravity (much harder than growing crops in the moon's gravity). I don't give a shit what China is doing."

                        I was aware that the USA was growing plants in orbit, not sure that it's edible food though. No, I seriously doubt that the conditions are harder than on the moon, I doubt the lab there can replicate the conditions of space below freezing temperatures and super hot environments.

                        I said on the moon, lol.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                          Cid, Cid, did you or did you not grow crops in microgravity in the KSC?
                          No. Poor wording on my behalf. I helped with the hydrating system that is currently in use on the ISS. We designed an aeroponic system to give a negative charge to mineral water so that it would stick to the seed/plant roots in microgravity because soil is too expensive to send into space and because the soil on the moon and on Mars may not be viable for growing food. We tested the system in microgravity, however, by putting the project on an airplane that was doing loops in the air to simulate microgravity.

                          Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                          I was aware that the USA was growing plants in orbit, not sure that it's edible food though. No, I seriously doubt that the conditions are harder than on the moon, I doubt the lab there can replicate the conditions of space below freezing temperatures and super hot environments.
                          Nothing can grow in those freezing temps or in super heated environments. China sent a mini biodome to the moon, mate. It had soil from Earth, water, and a heating element and thermostate that replicated the temperature the cotton would grow in here on Earth. The only challenge to the cotton seeds was the 1/6th gravity. Which makes it especially embarrassing the cotton sprouts died.

                          And yes, it's edible food.

                          https://www.space.com/38723-astronau...nstrument.html

                          By the way, the APH team mentioned here is the team I was on. These veggies weren't grown with out new system, though. It's the old one. Our system is an improvement and was sent up to the ISS last year.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Cid View Post

                            No. Poor wording on my behalf. I helped with the hydrating system that is currently in use on the ISS. We designed an aeronautic system to give a negative charge to mineral water so that it would stick to the seed/plant roots in microgravity because soil is too expensive to send into space and because the soil on the moon and on Mars may not be viable for growing food. We tested the system in microgravity, however, by putting the project on an airplane that was doing loops in the air to simulate microgravity.



                            Nothing can grow in those freezing temps or in super heated environments. China sent a mini biodome to the moon, mate. It had soil from Earth, water, and a heating element and thermostate that replicated the temperature the cotton would grow in here on Earth. The only challenge to the cotton seeds was the 1/6th gravity. Which makes it especially embarrassing the cotton sprouts died.

                            And yes, it's edible food.

                            https://www.space.com/38723-astronau...nstrument.html

                            By the way, the APH team mentioned here is the team I was on. These veggies weren't grown with out new system, though. It's the old one. Our system is an improvement and was sent up to the ISS last year.
                            Okay that makes more sense. Still holes in your explanation but it's better. Still, China could replicate that but chose to send those into space. Why? Because there's a difference.

                            Yep, the point of the experiment was to test if it could grow with the constant lower levels of gravity. And I believe it died because of the harsh conditions around it. At least that's what the article I read implied.


                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post

                              Okay that makes more sense. Still holes in your explanation but it's better. Still, China could replicate that but chose to send those into space. Why? Because there's a difference.

                              Yep, the point of the experiment was to test if it could grow with the constant lower levels of gravity. And I believe it died because of the harsh conditions around it. At least that's what the article I read implied.

                              The microgravity on the ISS is constant too, so there's not much of a difference.

                              It seems like they died because the temperature dropped when the moon orbited behind the Earth and the tank was no longer in direct sunlight. Like I said, nothing survives in those frigid temperatures.

                              Don't get me wrong, I'm not undermining China's effort in any way. It's a historic first that they they sprouted a plant on another celestial body... But we didn't really learn anything new from it and it wasn't a particularly big accomplishment, scientifically. They should have put a battery in there to keep the heat going instead of making it completely solar based... Then we could have continued to observe the growth. That might have been useful, I suppose. What NASA's been doing on the ISS is infinitely more impressive and is undoubtedly more useful for the future of space exploration, though. Learning how to grow crops in nearly non-existent gravity is more useful than growing them in reduced gravity. We can make adjustments to compensate for higher levels of gravity quite easily because we know how to grow crops on Earth already. But it would be really difficult to account for less gravity without a control to compare it to.
                              Last edited by Cid; February 6th, 2019, 08:57 PM.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Cid View Post

                                The microgravity on the ISS is constant too, so there's not much of a difference.

                                It seems like they died because the temperature dropped when the moon orbited behind the Earth and the tank was no longer in direct sunlight. Like I said, nothing survives in those frigid temperatures.

                                Don't get me wrong, I'm not undermining China's effort in any way. It's a historic first that they they sprouted a plant on another celestial body... But we didn't really learn anything new from it and it wasn't a particularly big accomplishment, scientifically. They should have put a battery in there to keep the heat going instead of making it completely solar based... Then we could have continued to observe the growth. That might have been useful, I suppose. What NASA's been doing on the ISS is infinitely more impressive and is undoubtedly more useful for the future of space exploration, though. Learning how to grow crops in nearly non-existent gravity is more useful than growing them in reduced gravity. We can make adjustments to compensate for higher levels of gravity quite easily because we know how to grow crops on Earth already. But it would be really difficult to account for less gravity without a control to compare it to.
                                I was referring to the airplane.

                                Yes, it was primordially because of the cold but the extreme heat didn't help. According to the article I read.


                                https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/...ton-plant/amp/

                                A few things:

                                In the canister, they practically tried to create a mini biosphere/ mini ecosystem. Not just grow plants.

                                It was just a University project, so it seems.

                                I mean, they're already talking about colonizing the moon.

                                " Liu Hanlong, one of the lead scientists in the group shared: “We have given consideration to future survival in space. Learning about these plants’ growth in a low-gravity environment would allow us to lay the foundation for our future establishment of space base.”"

                                "The news was a dream come true to all people committed to deep-space exploration. This meant not only that life on the Moon could possibly be sustained but offered a possibility of colonizing Mars without the need to rely on Earth’s resources for survival."

                                And it seems like it was a bigger deal than you say it was:

                                "Even though the young cotton plant, unfortunately, did not survive the harsh climate, this was a huge break-through in science. The legacy will continue, and the scientists will devise further experiments with improved conditions."

                                Here we see a very sharp contrast between what is actually happening and what you think is happening. China is making progress and soon will surpass the USA if they haven't already, while you just see it as a useless experiment. That arrogance of yours, and that the USA shares, might be the end of itself.
                                Last edited by #83.6666666667; February 8th, 2019, 01:10 AM.

                                Comment


                                  #76
                                  Cid, we currently use Fiat currency on worthless paper, and it still holds its face value, and we also do electronic transactions on ambiguous bits on computers, and it still holds its value.

                                  Therefore, if you coin Gold and Platinum in the denominations I mentioned, it would never lose its face value, which we would use the stock market price of TODAY to set the face value approximately the same.

                                  So Gold and Platinum will always be more valuable than paper money.

                                  Even if Gold and Platinum became as common as dirt, they would still be worth several dollars per troy ounce, because they would be used in more electronics applications and eventually in medical nanotechnology.
                                  Last edited by Wade; February 8th, 2019, 06:13 AM.

                                  Comment


                                    #77
                                    Originally posted by Wade View Post
                                    Cid, we currently use Fiat currency on worthless paper, and it still holds its face value, and we also do electronic transactions on ambiguous bits on computers, and it still holds its value.

                                    Therefore, if you coin Gold and Platinum in the denominations I mentioned, it would never lose its face value, which we would use the stock market price of TODAY to set the face value approximately the same.

                                    So Gold and Platinum will always be more valuable than paper money.

                                    Even if Gold and Platinum became as common as dirt, they would still be worth several dollars per troy ounce, because they would be used in more electronics applications and eventually in medical nanotechnology.
                                    So we should go looking for tons upon tons of gold and platinum so that it's worth a couple bucks a pop based on its practical use.

                                    Lmao

                                    Just take the L on this one. Go try and justify a fat tax, you'll have better luck on that than this.

                                    Comment


                                      #78
                                      Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                                      I was referring to the airplane.
                                      Why? It's not even relevant to the conversation. NASA uses "zero gravity" flights to test performance of their technology in simulated microgravity. The actual tests and research occurs aboard the International Space Station, where there is constant microgravity.

                                      Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                                      Yes, it was primordially because of the cold but the extreme heat didn't help. According to the article I read.
                                      Sure... As I said, nothing organic grows in those extreme temperatures. We already knew that, though. The temperature swings (hopefully) weren't part of the experiment. The experiment was growing seeds in an environment with reduced gravity. Which, as I've pointed out, NASA has been doing for decades.


                                      Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                                      https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/...ton-plant/amp/

                                      A few things:

                                      In the canister, they practically tried to create a mini biosphere/ mini ecosystem. Not just grow plants.

                                      It was just a University project, so it seems.

                                      I mean, they're already talking about colonizing the moon.

                                      " Liu Hanlong, one of the lead scientists in the group shared: “We have given consideration to future survival in space. Learning about these plants’ growth in a low-gravity environment would allow us to lay the foundation for our future establishment of space base.”"

                                      "The news was a dream come true to all people committed to deep-space exploration. This meant not only that life on the Moon could possibly be sustained but offered a possibility of colonizing Mars without the need to rely on Earth’s resources for survival."

                                      And it seems like it was a bigger deal than you say it was:

                                      "Even though the young cotton plant, unfortunately, did not survive the harsh climate, this was a huge break-through in science. The legacy will continue, and the scientists will devise further experiments with improved conditions."

                                      Here we see a very sharp contrast between what is actually happening and what you think is happening. China is making progress and soon will surpass the USA if they haven't already, while you just see it as a useless experiment. That arrogance of yours, and that the USA shares, might be the end of itself.
                                      Literally none of that matters? Why is this such a point of contention with you? It's like you're arguing just because you desperately want China to be ahead of the US in space development. lmao.

                                      China sent a biome to the moon. Ok. The entire point was to see how those seeds grew in the moon's 1/6th gravity. They didn't use lunar soil, they didn't siphon moisture from ice deposits on the lunar surface, and they didn't try to regulate the dome's atmospheric pressure to reflect the moon's pressure to see if it would have any affect on the plant's growth. The only thing they were doing was testing how it grew in the reduced gravity.

                                      Why is that so much bigger of an accomplishment than successfully growing edible crops in zero gravity conditions? lol

                                      Your argument here is silly. Quit being silly.


                                      Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                                      So we should go looking for tons upon tons of gold and platinum so that it's worth a couple bucks a pop based on its practical use.

                                      Lmao

                                      Just take the L on this one. Go try and justify a fat tax, you'll have better luck on that than this.
                                      I'm not even trying to be big-headed or rude here.

                                      But it's pretty laughable that anyone on this website thinks they can match me in any kind of discussion on any aspect of space exploration. This stuff has been a passion of mine for almost two decades. I've taken multiple astronomy courses. I've followed prominent astronomers, astrophysicists, astrobiologists, and other scientists for over a decade. I've probably read more material on the various aspects of space exploration in the last 30 days than Wade or #83 have through their entire lives. My electronics teacher has worked with NASA for 15 years on various research projects and is well-versed in astronomy and the history of space exploration, yet she came to me for fact-checking.

                                      I'm just saying, give up you two.
                                      Last edited by Cid; February 8th, 2019, 07:49 AM.

                                      Comment


                                        #79
                                        Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                                        So we should go looking for tons upon tons of gold and platinum so that it's worth a couple bucks a pop based on its practical use.

                                        Lmao

                                        Just take the L on this one. Go try and justify a fat tax, you'll have better luck on that than this.
                                        Why is $100 bill still worth $100? It's value has only dropped by half in the past 20 years, even though we mint an almost limitless supply of them?

                                        A $100 dollar coin never has to be removed from circulation due to usage, so its inherent value stays the same long than a fiat bill.

                                        Stop quotign Economics 101, you don't understand it, and even if you did, the people who wrote that book are the ones who failed to predict the 2008 stock bubble.

                                        Comment


                                          #80
                                          Originally posted by Wade View Post
                                          Why is $100 bill still worth $100?
                                          Because it has a standard value, you fucking idiot.

                                          That $100 bill or coin is worth $100 because our government says it is. It is NOT worth $100 when you take it to Canada. In fact, it's practically worthless in Canada because their government doesn't use our money. You have to have it converted into Canadian dollars, and even then the value changes pending on the current strength of the US and Canadian dollars.

                                          Precious metals DO NOT have a standard value. Their value is completely dependent on the market. That's why global prices fluctuate day-to-day based on supply and demand. The United States government DOES NOT have the power or authority to set the price of gold, silver, or any other precious metal. That is why it is PROVEN ECONOMICS that when supply increases substantially, demand decreases and the price goes down.

                                          This isn't an opinion. THIS IS ECONOMIC FACT that has been proven time and time again.

                                          You're literally telling us that what has always happened in the past will not happen again. Why? Because you're a fucking idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about. Everything you say is bullshit. Everything you say.

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