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A Treatise on Saving Our Nation's Government

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    #41
    Originally posted by Cid View Post

    Only asteroids that are rich in rare-Earth metals.

    As I pointed out in the last post, most asteroids are rocky, not metallic. Almost all of the asteroids closer to the sun are something like 80% carbon, in fact. The metallic ones tend to be further out.
    Which is why we must [ E X P A N D ]

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      #42
      Originally posted by Cid View Post

      Only asteroids that are rich in rare-Earth metals.

      As I pointed out in the last post, most asteroids are rocky, not metallic. Almost all of the asteroids closer to the sun are something like 80% carbon, in fact. The metallic ones tend to be further out.
      Just about any asteroid will be rich in these metals. They are not common in the crust of the Earth because they are denser than Silicon, a d therefore most of them have subducted into the mantle and core by now on Earth.

      In an undifieretiated asteroid, they will be "everywhere" in crystalline form.

      Oh, don't feel bad about not understanding the economics of pricing. All Gold is priced a few percent above cost by the seller.

      So you sell the space gold at the same price as the market gold, until you pay for your investment. Same goes for Platinum ad the rare earths. You control the price, because space wuld become the primary source for gold and platinum.

      There is a wikipedia article about this, but I confess I laughed at the authors of the article, because they too did not understand how pricing would work. Increased supply would not lower the price very much, because the cost of m ining it is pretty high. The price would get lower eventually, but at start-up the space Gold and space platinum would sell for the same price as Earth Gold and Earth Platinum, which is 15,000 per pound, give or take a few dollars.
      Last edited by Wade; February 4th, 2019, 02:06 PM.

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        #43
        Originally posted by Thar View Post

        Which is why we must [ E X P A N D ]
        S T E L L A R L E B A N S R A U M N O W

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          #44
          That's cool and all but you know this is in vain because the government isn't reading this and won't make any of the changes you want

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            #45
            Originally posted by Chara View Post
            That's cool and all but you know this is in vain because the government isn't reading this and won't make any of the changes you want
            It takes NASA too long to do anything these days. They plan "Toy Robot" missions 10 years in advance, and in spite of the devleopment of the new "Space Launch System" they are nowhere near planning anything serious in space. Stupid manned missions to Mars before they understand the value of asteroids. The SLS is designed with the intention of lading on an Asteroid, but NASA still isn't thinking about space exploration correctly...without mining ores to help pay for the costs, it'll never be sustainable...and Richard Branson's side show is just that, a stupid publicity stunt. Only Elon Musk has thought about this properly, and he's eventually going for space mining, watch and see.


            See, if the goverment did what I was suggesting, they would then convert the gold and platinum to coin and pay off the federal debt. i.e. $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100, $200, $500, and $1000 denominations of Gold and Platinum coins (from space rocks) and pay down the debt eventually.

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              #46
              Okay, I'll wrap up the Asteroids topic if you guys agree to seriously discuss some of the more practical ideas I posted.

              Oh yeah, I forgot to mention a 10% tax on lumber, bricks, and cinder blocks. This would be used to subsidize low-income housing for widows and orphans and disabled veterans and such.


              Lumber is the second most valuable natural resource on Earth, so it makes sense to tax it. Historically, kings taxed lumber at 10%, while the Priesthood of Israel required a 10% "Tithe" of lumber in the first year and every third year thereafter, so a lumber tax has always worked and always made sense, especially in an era when you needed to build massive amounts of wooden ships to wage war.

              Well shucks, that already gets covered by the VAT, but you get the idea.

              This is an incredible amount of wealth represented:

              https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-us-2001-2010/

              50 billion board-feet in 2006 vs 41 billion board-feet in 2016. You can see the REAL stock market collapse, starting as early as 2004 (not on this graphic) but passing through 2006 and 2007 as represented by the lowering demand and lowerig production of lumber in 2007 and 2008 as compared to 2006.

              A VAT starting at 3% and phasing in to 10% would be absorbed by the economy easily enough.
              Last edited by Wade; February 4th, 2019, 02:58 PM.

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                #47
                Originally posted by Wade View Post
                Just about any asteroid will be rich in these metals
                No, they will not be rich in those metals. Only metallic type asteroids are rich in metal and they're about 80% iron with the other 20% compromising mostly of nickel. In carbon asteroids, i.e the majority of NEOs, metal content is significantly lower. Do your research for once instead of believing you know everything.

                I also find it funny that everyone is wrong about the economic impacts... Except for you. Everyone says that the value will decrease with the influx of rare metals but you say they just don't understand the economics of it... lmao. Maybe, just maybe, you're the one that doesn't understand it. (like always, you actually understand very little.)

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                  #48
                  So we're doing this in America, right? Where are you gonna get the support to pass these laws? Especially the fat tax one, I want to hear how you get the votes on that.

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                    #49
                    I-Is this the fabled Third Treatise?

                    "Listen, Bubbs: hear that? The sounds of the whispering winds of shit."
                    Rest in peace, John Dunsworth (1946-2017).

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by Cid View Post

                      No, they will not be rich in those metals. Only metallic type asteroids are rich in metal and they're about 80% iron with the other 20% compromising mostly of nickel. In carbon asteroids, i.e the majority of NEOs, metal content is significantly lower. Do your research for once instead of believing you know everything.

                      I also find it funny that everyone is wrong about the economic impacts... Except for you. Everyone says that the value will decrease with the influx of rare metals but you say they just don't understand the economics of it... lmao. Maybe, just maybe, you're the one that doesn't understand it. (like always, you actually understand very little.)
                      You don't sell the Gold below the cost of operation,

                      Neither you nor the guy at NASA gets that. This would NOT lower the price of Gold below about $1000 per ounce....EVER.


                      Google "meteor Cross Section" and look at that, even the stony meteor has Gold inclusions the size of my thumb print. They're literally teeming with Gold and Platinum.

                      Comment


                        #51
                        Originally posted by Wade View Post

                        You don't sell the Gold below the cost of operation,

                        Neither you nor the guy at NASA gets that. This would NOT lower the price of Gold below about $1000 per ounce....EVER.


                        Google "meteor Cross Section" and look at that, even the stony meteor has Gold inclusions the size of my thumb print. They're literally teeming with Gold and Platinum.
                        This explains why you're so hilariously wrong, at least. Instead of doing the actual research, you found an image of an asteroid (either it's incorrect or you misidentified it as a C-Type) and you're basing all your crazy theories around it. LMAO

                        But no, you can't sell asteroid mined metals at the same cost as Earth mined metals. At least not without an insane boost in technology that would allow us to capture an M-Type asteroid and bring it 200 million miles from the asteroid belt to the Moon. The cost of mining them would be too high and you'd spend more getting them than you will from selling them.

                        But you're clearly incapable of comprehending logic, so I'm done with this discussion. You're wrong, but you're also not worth the time it has taken me to show it. Thankfully, nobody would ever allow you to dictate federal law or decide missions for NASA, so your insane, idiotic ramblings are just that.

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                          #52
                          Cid, you simply don't realize how this works.

                          You build one machine shop in space which constructs further tools from the metals on the asteroids. The facilities become "self replicating" so that you only launch one facility from the Earth to space (several launches are required just like the ISS). Once you have a "self-replicating" system at the asteroid, the only cost for shipping back to Earth is to build a drop pod from the iron mined and put the precious metals in the drop pod. Then you use an ion engine tractor to push it on a drop course for a designated drop space on Earth. The Ion tractor then puts itself on a course back for the Asteroid. To save on operating costs, the humans in the project stay in space for about 1 year to 2 years at a time.

                          The start-up cost is a few hundred billion, which is a lot for a corporation, but is not that bad for the U.S. government. The metals would be sold at market price until the start-up costs are paid, then the price would go down a little, to about $1000 per troy ounce. With self-replicating systems, you only launch ONE mining and manufacturing facility, and you build everything else you need from the materials mined from the asteroids (they have every stable element known to man, and most unstable elements too).

                          Whoever controls the market sets the price, so you just never sell the Gold and Platinum for less than about $1000 per troy ounce. In fact, if the government did this, they could coin money from the Gold and Platinum, and pay off foreign debts with gold and platinum coin.
                          Last edited by Wade; February 5th, 2019, 07:28 AM.

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                            #53
                            So how does the price of gold stay steady despite the fact that you're adding literal tons of it to the economy?

                            Also, how much fuel are we going through there? That'll only get scarcer and scarcer as time goes on.
                            Last edited by OrganizationXV; February 5th, 2019, 10:05 AM.

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                              #54
                              Originally posted by Cid View Post

                              This explains why you're so hilariously wrong.
                              I found Wade's Chief Economic Adviser

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                                #55
                                Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                                I found Wade's Chief Economic Adviser

                                Accurate.

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                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by Wade View Post
                                  So the Federal Government is Bankrupt.

                                  In order to pay off the Debt and permanently balance the Federal Budget, we need several changes.

                                  1) A new Tax Bracket for the $500k per year and greater people. Essentially the top 1%. These people should pay about 10% higher income taxes than they currently pay.

                                  Presently, 80% of the nation's income is controlled by the top 10% of earners, and 90% of the nation's accumulated wealth is controlled by the top 10%. If we took 10% of their wealth, and redistributed it to the other 90%, the people at the 50th percentile and below would double their living standard, while this would barely phase the people in the top 10%...


                                  2a) A Value Added Tax on all non-medical goods*, starting at 3% and phasing in by 1% per year until 10% is reached. For people below 50th percentile of income, this would be re-imbursed on the Federal Income Tax Return as a "Refundable Tax Credit," which phases out after 50th percentile earnings. The proceeds from this tax would be required, by constitutional amendment, to be spent on paying off the Federal Debt. With this Amendment and accompanying Bills, there would be a "Balanced Budget" clause requiring the Federal Budget to always be balanced or surplus, regardless of what is required to make that happen.

                                  2b) *Except recreational Marijuana, which would be taxed at the rate of 100% for raw Marijuana. Marijuana extract products are taxed only 10% because they are specialized for treating certain rare illnesses' symptoms.

                                  I would legalize all drugs, and just tax them very heavily, and also require a $500 dollar license to sell and a $500 license to buy, which would need to be renewed every year. This would lower the prison population, saving hundreds of millions of dollars, even billions of dollars to the economy. Non-violent offenders in prison for drug possession would be released on good behavior.


                                  3) A "Sugars and Fats Tax" on certain sugary and starchy items, including sodas, but not limited to that. It would also include additional taxes on foods with "bad fats" vs "good fats and oils". No, Bacon and Eggs are not taxed, because they turn out to be surprisingly good for you. Anything that is bad for a Diabetic to eat would get taxed another 10% on top of the VAT tax mentioned above.


                                  4) A literal "Fat Tax" on Obesity. Every year, you would "weigh in" and people with Body Mass Index 30 kg/m^2 or higher would pay a $500 tax, plus $100 for every 1 kg/m^2 above 30. Obese children's parents are taxed according to the same scale, so if an entire family of 4 or 5 is obese, this is a significant loss of income meant to correct bad habits.

                                  Proceeds from these taxes would go to Medicaid and Medicare, as well as medical research and nano-technology research.

                                  5) An initiative to spend more money on NASA space research, with a goal of mining Gold, Silver, Platinum, Uranium, and Thorium from Near Earth Objects and Asteroids ASAP. Also negotiating treaties with foreign powers to determine procedures for "right of claim" to asteroids and NEOs in space...presumably when placing a man on an Asteroid, it would be that nation's possession to mine from.

                                  5b) Re-negotiate certain treaties with Russia, allowing the NERVA nuclear rocket program to continue, so we can further power space exploration. Imagine a space probe that can reach Pluto within a six months of flight time instead of 10 years?! Imagine a manned mission to Mars which requires only 30 days flight time, instead of two years!?

                                  6) Carbon tax on Coal (especially,) Gasoline, and Diesel. No Carbon tax on Methane/Natural Gas, because it is burned as a backup fuel in Solar Power farms. This needs to be a moderately steep tax.

                                  6b) The money from this would go to construction of new levees in vulnerable locations, as well as subsidizing Wind, Solar, and Nuclear power (especially Fusion).
                                  Wade is honestly one of the smartest posters here, no joke. The fact he knows the Federal Government is bankrupt already puts him on the lead. The rest of you try to be more like Wade.

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                                  • Cid
                                    Cid commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    lmao

                                  #57
                                  Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
                                  So how does the price of gold stay steady despite the fact that you're adding literal tons of it to the economy?

                                  Also, how much fuel are we going through there? That'll only get scarcer and scarcer as time goes on.
                                  Solar Electric Ion engines don't use fuel. They run on the power of the Sun, and use Nobel Gases or hydrogen as propellant.

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                                    #58
                                    I'm not even joking, though. Wade has a good idea. His proposals sound good. Sorry Cid, but you'll have to buy a treadmill. His tax on Marijuana is better than banning marijuana. The fat tax, I think is already a thing in Japan. It works well. And as far as adding more money into NASA is a must, as I have already said. Wade is right when he says that the projects NASA is working on is small peanuts. China is aggressively working on their space program and I bet will do what Wade is proposing. Mining space objects should be encouraged. And while it might not be cost effective, so what? Most important projects that are revolutionary aren't cost effective at first, that's why governments fund them firs using tax payers money and then corporations then steal the info and hard work and profit. This is the same point Neil D. Tyson makes. Plus we need the resources, better now than later when we go to war for them. And it will do less harm to the environment to mine in space than on Earth.

                                    Just because you see Wade as crazy doesn't mean all his ideas are bad.

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                                      #59
                                      Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                                      I'm not even joking, though. Wade has a good idea
                                      lol

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                                        #60
                                        Originally posted by Cid View Post

                                        lol
                                        Your economic ambitions are very conservative. Did you not see China has now explored the dark side of the moon and even grew crops there? This means they're testing if it's possible to live in space (growing Cotton for cloths, Potatoes for food, rapeseed (no wade,no) for oil. China will soon surpass us and all you say is "lol'.

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