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    People's Congress of the Glorious Fuckocracy of T5: General Discussion

    Active Session




    Session #2: Education (Feb 4 - Feb 19???)

    ***Tentative Vote Feb 20th to 22nd

    PROPOSALS

    1. Primary education shall be funded publicly, with private schools existing as an option.

    2. Public schools shall be funded to provide for the "dietary needs" of students.

    3. National regulations shall set general "outcome standards" for what students are supposed to learn and the levels at which they are expected to perform, but it shall be up to local school administrators to come up with specific curriculum that meets those standards.

    4. Public schools shall be tasked with teaching adolescents job skills and leadership; not merely academics.

    5. Academic subjects such as reading, writing, and math shall be subject to standardized testing.

    6. Public schools must provide "special education" programs for children with disabilities.

    7. Public school teachers may teach definitions and histories and characteristics of political ideologies in their classrooms, but shall not be allowed to advocate for one specific politically ideology over another in their classes.

    8. Public school teachers may teach definitions and histories and characteristics of religious doctrines in their classrooms, but shall not be allowed to advocate for one specific doctrine over another in their classes.

    9. Standardized testing shall not be used as the sole measure by which students are graded.

    10. Civics shall be required subject in all schools; students must be instructed on how their country operates.

    11. Students shall be required to study a foreign language as a core subject.

    12. Comprehensive sex education shall be taught at the high school level.

    13. Early childhood education shall focus solely on academic subjects of math, science, history, and language proficiency, before more real-world-practical subjects are introduced in higher grades.

    14. High school level curriculum should differ from student-to-student depending on their choice of career path. Students entering high school, if they at that point wish to commit to a specific career path, shall be placed in a curriculum specifically tailored to that path rather than placed in general education.

    15. ONLY math, science, history, and native language proficiency shall be required subjects. Everything else should be elective to some degree.

    If voting [YES] on 15, must vote [NO] on 10 and 11.



    Record of Prior Sessions





    Session #1: Immigration (Rejected Proposals = Quotas, Ideological Tests, "The Wall," Amnesty for Illegals)

    Current Body of Law




    Immigration

    It shall be the general policy of The Fuckocracy that Procedures for legal immigration shall be implemented with a goal of making them as short and cheap and simple as possible; placing no undue burden on persons who wish to lawfully enter the country. (Lawful entrants who wish to become naturalized citizens, however, must undergo a lengthier and more expensive application process and learn our language + complete a citizenship test at their own expense.)

    There shall be no quotas or "caps" on lawful entry.

    There shall be no preference for persons on the basis of race, religion, or ethnicity in our immigration laws.

    Migrants shall not be subjected to ideological tests or excluded on the basis of political affiliation.

    Migrants need only present at a valid port of entry and pass basic screening to lawfully enter The Fuckocracy.

    Migrants shall be excluded from lawful entry if and only if: they are flagged as having a violent criminal history, they have known gang or terrorist affiliations, or if they have a disease or mental defect that would pose an unreasonable risk to health and public safety.

    Because lawful entry is being made so easy that anyone not coming to the Fuckocracy for nefarious purposes can do it, there shall be no amnesty or asylum for unlawful entrants.

    Likewise, it there shall be strict border control and law enforcement actions to punish and deter unlawful entry.

    There shall be no "Border Wall," but fencing shall be maintained in known high-traffic smuggling corridors as a physical barrier to unlawful entry.


    The Fuckocracy shall likewise maintain a "virtual fence" along the border, consisting of motion detector technology AND surveillance, and fund staffing to monitor the motion detectors.

    Persons present in the Fuckocracy on conditional Visas shall be regularly monitored to ensure that they are complying with the terms of their Visas.

    Law enforcement shall be authorized to conduct "raids" against persons illegal residing in the Fuckocracy without lawful immigration status, and place them in deportation proceedings.

    Law enforcement shall likewise be authorized to initiate criminal proceedings against persons found to be employing illegal immigrants, and employers convicted of this offense may be subject to hefty fines.


    Border patrol shall be staffed and trained to such levels as to be able to react to any detected attempts at unlawful entry with a response time of 30 minutes or less.

    Border Patrol agents at all times have a duty to treat migrants humanely and shall be held to the highest professional standards.

    Migrants caught attempting to illegally enter the Fuckocracy shall be swiftly deported, and shall not be interned or detained for any extended periods of time.

    Parents and children that attempt to illegally cross together shall be held and deported together. It shall be illegal for border patrol to separate parents from their children in detention and detain them at separate facilities. It shall further be illegal for border patrol to separate parents and children during the deportation process. (UNLESS necessary to provide emergency medical treatment, in which case border patrol shall promptly reunite parent and child once the emergency medical services have been rendered)

    If migrants at the border or in border patrol custody are experiencing a medical emergency, border patrol personnel shall at all times have a duty to provide immediate lifesaving treatment or take the migrant to a hospital where emergency lifesaving treatment can be provided before taking any other legal actions against him.

    Border patrol agents shall at all times be required to wear active bodycams while on duty. Video feed from these cams shall be accessible to the general public as a matter of public record, and shall be admissible as evidence that the agent acted or failed to act in a manner required by law if it is alleged that the agent engaged in inhumane treatment of a migrant or some other form of official misconduct.

    If it is alleged that a border patrol agent engaged in official misconduct and his bodycam footage could provide evidence either incriminating him or exonerating him, but the relevant footage cannot be produced because it is missing or destroyed or the agent deactivated his bodycam at the time of the incident in question, the absence of footage shall support a presumption-at-trial that the missing footage would have incriminated the agent.


    It shall be the policy of the Fuckocracy to use "trade deals" and business policy with neighboring nations as leverage/incentive to encourage them to crackdown on illegal migration in their own territory, before it becomes a problem at our own borders.

    Education

    Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; February 7th, 2019, 11:30 AM.

    #2
    I'll kick off the discussion with what I think should be the general policy goals underlying the law here, and then let you guys populate the thread with specific proposals before I weigh in further


    1) It should be easy for anyone who wants to immigrate to our country to live and work and raise their family to do so legally. The law should impose no undue burden on such persons.

    2) Persons should be excluded from lawful entry if and only if they are genuinely dangerous (i.e. they have a violent criminal history, they are affiliated with known terrorist organizations, they are infected with a highly contagious airborne disease, etc.)


    3) It should be so easy to do it legally that we can reasonably assume anyone doing it illegally must be breaking the law for nefarious purposes.

    4) So long as it is so easy to immigrate legally that we may reasonably presume anyone doing it illegally must be breaking the law for nefarious purposes, We should have strict enforcement of border security + arrest, detention, and deportation of unlawful entrants.
    Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; January 17th, 2019, 11:04 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      So we just discuss this topic here and now, eh? Cause if so.. I say we got with a virtual wall! No seriously. Guy who made Occulus Rift came up with the idea using sensors which detect things moving about 2 miles away and displays them on your VR headset. That way you can tell if it is a person or animal. https://www.technologyreview.com/the...-wall-company/

      Granted we'll need a lot of staff along the border which might mean long drives or long shifts. Hell might even have to make a tiny town nearby some parts of the border, but at least this is significantly cheaper than fucking broken border wall. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...-sawed-n956856


      So that's border security. I'll talk about Immigration later.

      Comment


      • OrganizationXV
        OrganizationXV commented
        Editing a comment
        More staff does mean more jobs, lol.

        What stops a car from driving through the desert at a hundred miles an hour? I doubt it's law enforcement that didn't know they were coming until they're already there.

        Let's do a virtual wall+a knee-high barrier.

      #4
      That sounds great on paper but I don't know how well it would work out in practice. Could we ensure that any background checks we make are both accurate and fast enough to go through the ridiculous numbers of people at the border right now? We can't make it easy if there's always a waiting time that spans months, which means that we couldn't safely assume that anyone trying to cross illegally would be doing so for bad purposes.

      I'd also like something that addresses expired visas, since that makes up a sizeable minority of illegal immigrants.
      Originally posted by Wade
      Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

      Comment


        #5
        time to build that wall
        Originally posted by Kajin_Style
        I have this illness called "Having-a-Heart" and gives me this irrational sense of empathy and care for my fellow man.

        Comment


          #6
          Updating OP with list of tabled proposals to be voted on at end of session as we move along.


          Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
          I'd also like something that addresses expired visas, since that makes up a sizeable minority of illegal immigrants.
          You have the floor. What pray tell do you propose we do about it, Mr. Orgy???

          Comment


            #7
            Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
            I'd also like something that addresses expired visas, since that makes up a sizeable minority of illegal immigrants.
            A minor correction to that. I'm sure you just got your wording mixed up, though.

            Expired VISAs make up a sizable majority of illegal immigrants. Most estimates put it over 50% of all undocumented peoples in the United States and some estimates have nailed it between 60% and 70%. So it really is the number one issue insofar as addressing undocumented immigrants in the country.

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by Cid View Post

              A minor correction to that. I'm sure you just got your wording mixed up, though.

              Expired VISAs make up a sizable majority of illegal immigrants. Most estimates put it over 50% of all undocumented peoples in the United States and some estimates have nailed it between 60% and 70%. So it really is the number one issue insofar as addressing undocumented immigrants in the country.
              Actually, I think I had the numbers flipped. But either way, yeah. That makes it an even bigger priority.
              Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post
              You have the floor. What pray tell do you propose we do about it, Mr. Orgy???
              I'd have to do some research on work visas before I can confidently put anything out, really (I don't get why we have it at all tbh), but I can give you a shot in the dark.

              Maybe we request weekly updates from employers on all of their migrant workers and include how long their visas will be valid for. Then maybe give some workers a shot at permanent residency if they want to, I suppose.. That'd incentivise being here legally rather than just staying despite being illegal.
              Originally posted by Wade
              Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

              Comment


                #9
                Given how the Right feels about letting illegal immigrants go off scoot free or even with a slap on the wrist. What if we went with a middle ground approach and gave them a hefty fine? Say in the ballpark of... $5,000 - $10,000. If we truly have 11 million illegal immigrants that could roughly equal to $55 billion to $110 billion dollars. With this kind of funding you could actually built Trump's wall. LOL. Let's not though and put it to better use like:

                1) Hiring more judges (maybe lawyers?) for those asylum hearings and immigrant courts.
                2) Other border securities methods (Aka whatever we vote on for border security)
                3) Innovation for Border Security Technology.

                The third one would be good in helping to keep future border security costs down. This border problem (minus the partisan nonsense) is an interesting problem that math and science should be able to figure out. Even Orgy pointed out how a group could drive a car across said border at high speeds making it difficult to track them. If we could have the technology that can watch that kind of huge stretch of land it could be very beneficial to our military in the future as well...

                (Oh god... did I just push for scenario where the government can completely control us by watching our every move!? Fuck me I'm the political idiot that started this mess and dies mid way, damnit!)

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
                  Given how the Right feels about letting illegal immigrants go off scoot free or even with a slap on the wrist. What if we went with a middle ground approach and gave them a hefty fine? Say in the ballpark of... $5,000 - $10,000. If we truly have 11 million illegal immigrants that could roughly equal to $55 billion to $110 billion dollars. With this kind of funding you could actually built Trump's wall. LOL. Let's not though and put it to better use like:

                  1) Hiring more judges (maybe lawyers?) for those asylum hearings and immigrant courts.
                  2) Other border securities methods (Aka whatever we vote on for border security)
                  3) Innovation for Border Security Technology.

                  The third one would be good in helping to keep future border security costs down. This border problem (minus the partisan nonsense) is an interesting problem that math and science should be able to figure out. Even Orgy pointed out how a group could drive a car across said border at high speeds making it difficult to track them. If we could have the technology that can watch that kind of huge stretch of land it could be very beneficial to our military in the future as well...

                  (Oh god... did I just push for scenario where the government can completely control us by watching our every move!? Fuck me I'm the political idiot that started this mess and dies mid way, damnit!)
                  How are illegal immigrants gonna have that much money though? Do you just like put them in debt and have them work it off as indentured servants?

                  Comment


                    #11
                    I propose immediate deportation of all 4chan refugees from T5

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by Mae Borowski View Post

                      How are illegal immigrants gonna have that much money though? Do you just like put them in debt and have them work it off as indentured servants?
                      Would you prefer they get deported? Or how about put them in our already crowded jails? Supposedly 11 million illegals is a massive and costly undertaking to deport/imprison. Worse so if we imprison them because then we got to feed them, hire guards, wardens, cooks, etc. More money out of our tax dollars.

                      So a hefty fine to me will do. Sure it'll hurt them but they can pay it off in tiny monthly installments. If it takes them 10, 20 or 30 years to pay off that is fine in my books. So long as the fine is taken as the punishment for illegal entertaining the US and we move past the crime phase and into the whole making them american phase, all the better.

                      They will still need to pay for their citizenship as well. Then there's the classes they need to take (like english classes) to become a US citizen. If however they aren't making efforts then to become an actual citizen. Well now we can talk about deportation. I however feel many will want to stay and become American and will do whatever they can for it. We just have to give them a chance.

                      Comment


                        #13
                        The problem with fining illegal immigrants is that they have no inventive to pay it off and we have no power to force them to pay. Unless we keep them in the country, which seems like a bad idea to me. Remember, part of the problem is that they just kind of disappear after a while. How're we getting money from people we can't find?
                        Originally posted by Wade
                        Everything is hidden in plain sight, like in Men in Black. We've all just been neuralized to think it is "normal".

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by Cid View Post

                          A minor correction to that. I'm sure you just got your wording mixed up, though.

                          Expired VISAs make up a sizable majority of illegal immigrants. Most estimates put it over 50% of all undocumented peoples in the United States and some estimates have nailed it between 60% and 70%. So it really is the number one issue insofar as addressing undocumented immigrants in the country.
                          What if we put in place a system to keep track of people with VISAs, and then used it to deal with people once their VISAs expire?

                          Put in a grace period for renewal or other actions to try and obtain legal status, and then punish them with certain restrictions or other repercussions once they start going over the grace period substantially?

                          Maybe a system could be put in place to punish employers when they employ illegals at their business...? Or some other system that makes abusing the system more difficult through digital technology, to incentivize illegals to become legal or for people with VISAs to follow the rules or otherwise try and take a path to legal status...?

                          Comment


                            #15
                            I request a new section to be built specifically of Lewds featuring everyone's current Avatar!

                            JK. JK.

                            Comment


                              #16
                              Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                              Would you prefer they get deported? Or how about put them in our already crowded jails? Supposedly 11 million illegals is a massive and costly undertaking to deport/imprison. Worse so if we imprison them because then we got to feed them, hire guards, wardens, cooks, etc. More money out of our tax dollars.

                              So a hefty fine to me will do. Sure it'll hurt them but they can pay it off in tiny monthly installments. If it takes them 10, 20 or 30 years to pay off that is fine in my books. So long as the fine is taken as the punishment for illegal entertaining the US and we move past the crime phase and into the whole making them american phase, all the better.

                              They will still need to pay for their citizenship as well. Then there's the classes they need to take (like english classes) to become a US citizen. If however they aren't making efforts then to become an actual citizen. Well now we can talk about deportation. I however feel many will want to stay and become American and will do whatever they can for it. We just have to give them a chance.
                              I didn't mean anything about deporting them, it's just like, isn't there a finite amount of money? How do we have enough money to pay them to pay us? Lmao that sounds useless. What if we just made all immigration legal and just make it easier to immigrate so we don't have to waste their time? Then there are no illegal immigrants and we don't have to have sticks up our asses about it.

                              Comment


                                #17
                                Originally posted by Mae Borowski View Post

                                I didn't mean anything about deporting them, it's just like, isn't there a finite amount of money? How do we have enough money to pay them to pay us? Lmao that sounds useless. What if we just made all immigration legal and just make it easier to immigrate so we don't have to waste their time? Then there are no illegal immigrants and we don't have to have sticks up our asses about it.
                                "Just let everyone in, no problems."-Mae Borowski.

                                All the criminals to the South of us band up and decide to flood through the US border because all immigration is legal now and they can get away from everyone over there that's after them.

                                What should we do in response...?
                                Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; January 18th, 2019, 02:37 PM.

                                Comment


                                  #18
                                  Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                                  "Just let everyone in, no problems."-Mae Borowski.

                                  All the criminals to the South of us band up and decide to flood through the US border because all immigration is legal now and they can get away from everyone over there that's after them.

                                  What should we do in response...?
                                  It's the US government dude. We let the crooked cops kill them and then not punish the cops and pretend we had nothing to do with it. The cops love killing people

                                  Comment


                                    #19
                                    Originally posted by Louay View Post
                                    I propose immediate deportation of all 4chan refugees from T5
                                    Thats like half of the active member base
                                    Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
                                    Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

                                    Comment


                                      #20
                                      Originally posted by Mae Borowski View Post

                                      It's the US government dude. We let the crooked cops kill them and then not punish the cops and pretend we had nothing to do with it. The cops love killing people
                                      ...

                                      Comment

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