western propaganda

[Post-Crisis Shob]

The United States government is corrupt, but it's not as corrupt as the Chinese government. I can freely learn about all the atrocities my country committed throughout it's history and can even call the President a moron and openly criticize him on social media under my real name... And nothing happens to me as a result. If I were doing that in China, I'd be tossed in jail and never heard from again.

True Story: the new Christopher Robin movie was banned in China. And the reason why is because this image circulated back when Obama was president...




...and it became known to The Party that "Winnie the Pooh" was a code name for Xi Jinping being used by persons who wanted to secretly criticize The Leader on covert anti-government websites without openly declaring that they were talking about Xi Jinping.

Searching for "Winnie the Pooh" in China is on the list of things that will get you an unfortunate and unpleasant visit from The Party.

That's how deep the Chinese government gets into controlling information + silencing anything that goes against official government statements.

[OrganizationXV]

So this thread backfired lol

[Cid]

True Story: the new Christopher Robin movie was banned in China. And the reason why is because this image circulated back when Obama was president...




...and it became known to The Party that "Winnie the Pooh" was a code name for Xi Jinping being used by persons who wanted to secretly criticize The Leader on covert anti-government websites without openly declaring that they were talking about Xi Jinping.

Searching for "Winnie the Pooh" in China is on the list of things that will get you an unfortunate and unpleasant visit from The Party.

That's how deep the Chinese government gets into controlling information + silencing anything that goes against official government statements.

Sure makes me want to go live in China.

[Post-Crisis Shob]

So this thread backfired lol

That will happen when you try to take the moral high ground on critique of state propaganda and freedom of information in Western democracies, and your point-of-reference is extolling the political and cultural superiority of fucking China.

[Sza]

Yes.

No, no no.

Didn't you create this section with the sole purpose of staying on-topic

Tell me again how bad the chinese government is in a thread about western propaganda anything but off topic here?

Yes. China's government is artificially inflating it's economy because of how bad things are in the country. Yes, it shows weakness. Yes it's still dangerous because if China collapses, it takes most of the rest of the world with it.

So you also believe propaganda? Also, what do you mean "artifically inflating it's economy", and what do you think this means?

We know.

But you refuse to acknowledge your precious american democracy as not being perfectly perfect because you think every atrocity ever done by them is "out in the open"

How naive and cute.

Searching for "Winnie the Pooh" in China is on the list of things that will get you an unfortunate and unpleasant visit from The Party.

another blatantly overstated misleading fact. At worst, You'd get no results, and no, you would not be tossed in prison for merely searching something up.

China is not some 1984 society guys.

[Sza]

Sure makes me want to go live in China.

Like i asked Doc a while ago, you also buy into the whole "life in china" is like George Orwell's 1984 huh? No, the people of china are very much happy living there. I lived there. I was happy. But some actual reasons for me saying this as the quality of life in china is alot higher than what this propaganda may have led you to believe.

So what measure and what source are you using for the quality of life of chinese people?
China has the second highest GDP in the world (third if we count european union as an entity which then ends up first)
It has an unemployment rate equal to that of the US
People feel much safer there than in most western countries
Life expectancy has nearly closed on western countries life expectancy despite the terrible stuff that was done under Mao


China's people have on average gotten richer, more educated, healthier and gained freedom. Despite the huge pressure they faced with lack of ressources and growth in population they have managed to overcome food shortages and quality problems. They have much better infrastructures and have started peacefully incorporating historically independent regions (such as Hong Kong) which is something that was pretty much unexpected (the peaceful part I mean)


Now, clearly some people wouldn't want to live there because some people have grown more valuing individual freedom and wouldn't want a government that goes as far as dictating how many children they are supposed to have (first the single child policy and now they're contemplating the opposite with adding a tax on childless married couples to compensate for population ageing), but fact is most chinese are very happy to live in their country the way it is, a majority support what the government does and most of those who don't would tell you that they wouldn't trade a more laxist government for economic prosperity. You guys are insisting on judging China by imposing your western values on it which is quite arrogant and paternalistic. It's especially pathetic when you think this censorship is making the chinese people a herd or incapable of doing things for themselves.

[Noodle-kun]

They have much better infrastructures and have started peacefully incorporating historically independent regions (such as Hong Kong) which is something that was pretty much unexpected (the peaceful part I mean)

"Peaceful"

I didn't realize "peaceful" now means trying to strip rights away from the of Hong Kong (who's people actively do not consider themselves to be part of China). I guess this is also why China is trying to interfere with elections in HK and Taiwan in hopes of getting pro-Beijing candidates in. You're either trolling or a fucking idiot

[Sza]

"Peaceful"

Tell me how many lives have been lost, and how china, perfectly within it's own rights to do so, has not tried taking it back by force yet?

there being a border does little to prove that it hasn't been a mostly peaceful thing. Much like how armed troops at borders don't indicate anything in the relationships between two countries.

I didn't realize "peaceful" now means trying to strip rights away from the of Hong Kong (who's people actively do not consider themselves to be part of China).

They are running under a "one country, two system" where HK retains their own legislation, governance, etc but 'reports' to China. and the UK gave HK back to china anyway, so yes, they are technically apart of china now.

I guess this is also why China is trying to interfere with elections in HK and Taiwan in hopes of getting pro-Beijing candidates in. You're either trolling or a fucking idiot

Can i get a link to this?

[Oneiros]

Imagine waking up one morning and thinking to yourself, Hmm, I feel like getting buttfucked by the entirety of T5 today.

[Noodle-kun]

Tell me how many lives have been lost, and how china, perfectly within it's own rights to do so, has not tried taking it back by force yet?

there being a border does little to prove that it hasn't been a mostly peaceful thing. Much like how armed troops at borders don't indicate anything in the relationships between two countries.




They are running under a "one country, two system" where HK retains their own legislation, governance, etc but 'reports' to China. and the UK gave HK back to china anyway, so yes, they are technically apart of china now.

The agreement was China takes full control over HK in 2047 (50 years after the British handed it over). They are now pushing as hard as they can to get influence despite HK being an independent country. No lives being lost yet (or rather very few, but thats another story) doesn't make this a clear violation.

Can i get a link to this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/w...-meddling.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...005140173.html
http://www.atimes.com/article/taiwan...y-under-siege/

inb4 "this is fake news!" "its in their right!" and/or "free elections cause trouble! I love sucking on xi dada's tits!"

[OrganizationXV]

Like i asked Doc a while ago, you also buy into the whole "life in china" is like George Orwell's 1984 huh? No, the people of china are very much happy living there. I lived there. I was happy. But some actual reasons for me saying this as the quality of life in china is alot higher than what this propaganda may have led you to believe.

Most of the people were happy in Orwell's 1984. The only ones who weren't were dissidents, which their government went to extreme lengths to silence.
...So uh...

[Sza]

The agreement was China takes full control over HK in 2047 (50 years after the British handed it over). They are now pushing as hard as they can to get influence despite HK being an independent country. No lives being lost yet (or rather very few, but thats another story) doesn't make this a clear violation.

So rather, no lives have been lost and all this fuss over it not being peaceful is over them "trying" to push to go by faster?

I didn't realize actively anticipating something that is inevitable is now considered not peaceful huh

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/w...-meddling.html

From the article itself

Some are concerned that Beijing is trying to influence the race

Basically speculation.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...005140173.html

Doesn't really say anything other than the fact china wants a pro beijing candidate in. Every country does it at this point.

To quote the US president, "the polls are rigged"

http://www.atimes.com/article/taiwan...y-under-siege/

Another article on taiwan and Beijing's alledged accusations again.

inb4 "this is fake news!" "its in their right!" and/or "free elections cause trouble! I love sucking on xi dada's tits!"

More like each article you listed is just conjecturing some speculation around. Even if it was true, it doesn't change the fact the recent affairs over Hong Kong and China has been relatively peaceful, and likely will remain to do so.

You could say China's own tact in approaching this situation has not been the most rational, but that's another argument altogether.

[Sza]

Most of the people were happy in Orwell's 1984. The only ones who weren't were dissidents, which their government went to extreme lengths to silence.
...So uh...

I referenced that since many people here tend to think merely thinking the wrong thoughts will lead you to being killed, or that they're being watched 24/7 by the government.

and iirc, they weren't happy. I recall the main character as having little to no emotion in his day to day life. (which is why he ran away with alice(?) away from anyone watching to talk to and connect with emotionally)

[OrganizationXV]

I referenced that since many people here tend to think merely thinking the wrong thoughts will lead you to being killed, or that they're being watched 24/7 by the government.

and iirc, they weren't happy. I recall the main character as having little to no emotion in his day to day life. (which is why he ran away with alice(?) away from anyone watching to talk to and connect with emotionally)

Yeah, the main character wasn't happy. But most of the people either were fine with what was happening (I remember one dude being excited to find out that they were taking words out of the dictionary to make people think less) or they didn't let it bother them (Remember when Alice was like "Oh, we were at war with that one? I thought it was always the other one. Oh, well.)

The point is that ignorance is bliss under a totalitarian ruler.

[Sza]

Yeah, the main character wasn't happy. But most of the people either were fine with what was happening (I remember one dude being excited to find out that they were taking words out of the dictionary to make people think less) or they didn't let it bother them (Remember when Alice was like "Oh, we were at war with that one? I thought it was always the other one. Oh, well.)

The point is that ignorance is bliss under a totalitarian ruler.

but then you're suggesting the chinese populace is some kind of sheep that needs government help to think for themselves....

which isn't correct at all.
and it's been about 6-7 years since i read that book, so my memory on the details of the events are pretty hazy.

[OrganizationXV]

but then you're suggesting the chinese populace is some kind of sheep that needs government help to think for themselves....

which isn't correct at all.
and it's been about 6-7 years since i read that book, so my memory on the details of the events are pretty hazy.

I haven't read it since I was eleven or something like that, but I remember four or five specific scenes from it somehow.

I'm not saying they need the government to think for them, I'm saying they're better off for doing it. Like Shob's Chinese friend said, "That's the kind of thing we know not to ask questions about". I'm sure the Chinese people can express all kinds of intelligent and nuanced opinions that don't revolve around potential government controversy.

[Sza]

I haven't read it since I was eleven or something like that, but I remember four or five specific scenes from it somehow.

I'm not saying they need the government to think for them, I'm saying they're better off for doing it.

The chinese government does not think for it's citizens. And yes, it does influence it to an extent, that is still a far cry away for them deciding everything in their lives.

Like Shob's Chinese friend said, "That's the kind of thing we know not to ask questions about".

And like i said to shob, one chinese person does not represent the entirety of the population.

like i'm not sure if you know this, but when the chinese people complain, the government caves in...

the point alone implies you think they don't even have the brains to think for themselves and are merely a herd that gets guided by their leaders, the chinese government does not have the means to forcefully stay in place, they are allowed to use very harsh measures to enforce the law because of how disciplined chinese people are, but when the population starts to complain, and it does, for example on environmental issues, the government quickly caves in (maybe not for good reasons, but whether it is out of moral principles or to maintain their advantageous positions the people who rule China care a lot about keeping chinese people happy))

you have to remember, china is ripe for the world's biggest civil war in history, the government kind of has to abide by the majority.

[Cid]

No, no no.

Didn't you create this section with the sole purpose of staying on-topic

Tell me again how bad the chinese government is in a thread about western propaganda anything but off topic here?

Ok everyone.

Solar wants his thread to remain completely on-topic. You're only allowed to discuss western propaganda now.

So feel free to not post here and let the thread die.

[OrganizationXV]

EDIT: Y'okay, Cid. I'll stay away from discussing China from now on.

The chinese government does not think for it's citizens. And yes, it does influence it to an extent, that is still a far cry away for them deciding everything in their lives.

~snip~

And like i said to shob, one chinese person does not represent the entirety of the population.

like i'm not sure if you know this, but when the chinese people complain, the government caves in...

the point alone implies you think they don't even have the brains to think for themselves and are merely a herd that gets guided by their leaders, the chinese government does not have the means to forcefully stay in place, they are allowed to use very harsh measures to enforce the law because of how disciplined chinese people are, but when the population starts to complain, and it does, for example on environmental issues, the government quickly caves in (maybe not for good reasons, but whether it is out of moral principles or to maintain their advantageous positions the people who rule China care a lot about keeping chinese people happy))

~snip~

[Cid]

It was mostly a joke... lol