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T5 Official Discussion: The Trump Presidency

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    Originally posted by Cid View Post


    So this is a thing that happened today.
    The two things he attacks are things specifically stated to not be done away with. Those two things are pointed out as to why the term Net-zero is used rather than flat out zero

    Comment


      Welp... Guess we can wipe Collusion off the list:




      While we are at it we can now also wipe out the Mueller from the list of Trump investigations:


      Comment


        Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
        Welp... Guess we can wipe Collusion off the list:




        While we are at it we can now also wipe out the Mueller from the list of Trump investigations:

        I can't put into words how funny it is that you, and most the media, are now saying what I've been saying for well over a year now. Except I was being called a Trump supporter/defender/fascist because I saw the collusion thing had no legs.

        Comment


          Originally posted by J peth View Post

          I can't put into words how funny it is that you, and most the media, are now saying what I've been saying for well over a year now. Except I was being called a Trump supporter/defender/fascist because I saw the collusion thing had no legs.
          That's what you get for not blindly throwing yourself into every attack against Trump.

          Next you'll tell me you didn't even riot when Hillary lost.

          Comment


            Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

            That's what you get for not blindly throwing yourself into every attack against Trump.

            Next you'll tell me you didn't even riot when Hillary lost.
            I'll have to get back to you after I find that fence I was supposedly riding this whole time.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post
              Like I know I've had words with Cid about this. (i.e. "its shame, character, and basic human empathy that Trump lacks. Not intelligence.")

              I've been arguing for a while now Trump isn't dumb. Trump is just a really good con-artist who knows how to talk to dumb people in a way that makes them feel comfortable + trusting.

              I'm leaning now towards "No. Trump really is that dumb."

              You were right Cid. I admit error.
              The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Trump definitely has some people skills, especially compared to the soulless dead-eyed Terminator the dems were pushing in 2016.

              me personally....I been said since day 1 Trump is a narcissistic clown who just knows how to play a crowd wholly unfit to be president. I'd been skeptical of any Russia collusion, but I will admit some of his actions during the investigation had given me pause at certain points.


              Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

              Yeah, it's weird how people want to know if their leader committed treason.
              lmao why does that guy even show himself in politics any more


              Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
              Welp... Guess we can wipe Collusion off the list:




              While we are at it we can now also wipe out the Mueller from the list of Trump investigations:

              The thing is, all that other stuff is going to lose its power after Mueller. The dems were going in super-hard on that investigation around the clock, so much so that I would hear about it every now and again on Mexican/Latin American outlets.

              And Trump, retarded as he may be, is smart enough to dangle this failed attack in front of his naysayers. I can hear him clearly as I type this, talking to an interviewer in the future: "I'm sorry, I'm under invesigation for what now?.....? Oh, it's just fake news, all of it. Remember Russiagate? The democrats are just throwing things at the wall hoping something sticks. They know it, I know it, the people know it. They're desperate because 2020 is just around the corner, and nothing is sticking to me. It's a shame, these people get angry because you say you put America first, and so they accuse you of treason. It's just terrible. Hispanics, they've started to come around to me, they realize now that the democrats are liars and took advantage of their faithfulness to the party, and now they're sick of it. We're all sick of it."
              Last edited by Helly; March 28th, 2019, 04:05 AM.

              Comment


                Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                See, the thing is...I like it when the bad guy is an idiot.

                Because if they were smart, they'd be so much worse.

                It's always the smart assholes that cause the most damage.

                Don't let any veneer of professionality or lack of 24/7 Twitter trolling cloud that fact.
                Oh wow...RCA gets it...

                I'll take that one step further:


                Smart Good Guy >>> Dumb Good Guy >>> Dumb Bad Guy >>> Smart Bad Guy

                Intelligence is a means to an end and not an end itself: which is to say it is not inherently good or bad. But good when used for good purposes and bad when used for corrupt purposes.

                I want my good guy candidates to be as smart as possible.

                I want my bad guy candidates to be Rick Santorum.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by J peth View Post

                  I can't put into words how funny it is that you, and most the media, are now saying what I've been saying for well over a year now. Except I was being called a Trump supporter/defender/fascist because I saw the collusion thing had no legs.


                  To be far, there was a lot of smoke for it. A shit town of smoke. Like I thought the house was on fire but instead someone burned something in the microwave kinda smoke. The worst of it is because this didn't became true, he is even dumber than I thought. Secondly, you denounced the investigation but didn't give a solid reason why so you sounded like every other Trump supporter.

                  If you had said "Investigation is going no where cause Trump is too stupid to collude" Then I'd be singing a different tone towards you, but that's not how you phrased it. You just went against the very idea of it without showing much acknowledgement to all the bloody smoke everywhere.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
                    But now because of this investigation I was proven wrong
                    basically

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Helly View Post


                      The thing is, all that other stuff is going to lose its power after Mueller. The dems were going in super-hard on that investigation around the clock, so much so that I would hear about it every now and again on Mexican/Latin American outlets.

                      And Trump, retarded as he may be, is smart enough to dangle this failed attack in front of his naysayers. I can hear him clearly as I type this, talking to an interviewer in the future: "I'm sorry, I'm under invesigation for what now?.....? Oh, it's just fake news, all of it. Remember Russiagate? The democrats are just throwing things at the wall hoping something sticks. They know it, I know it, the people know it. They're desperate because 2020 is just around the corner, and nothing is sticking to me. It's a shame, these people get angry because you say you put America first, and so they accuse you of treason. It's just terrible. Hispanics, they've started to come around to me, they realize now that the democrats are liars and took advantage of their faithfulness to the party, and now they're sick of it. We're all sick of it."
                      Yea.... I know... and I read that in Trump's voice.. ugh.


                      Funny enough Pelosi was detouring the party away from this saying impeachment is not worth it. So good move on her to steer the boat early. Secondly, he is claiming this exonerates him when it literally says it doesn't... so... lol. More fake news from main source of fake news himself.

                      Either way I agree this is a blow to the dems but it is just a multi-level blow. I rather he colluded with Russia, than be so stupid/self centered that he risk the country for his own personal gains in Russia. Cause that's gotta be the only reason right? He wants to build a Tower in Russia, that has got to be the only reason he sided with Russia during this entire mess.

                      What is even crazier, right is that he had people on his team and nearly 20 russia nationals get indicted over this shit. So how the fuck everyone below him get in bed with Russia but he didn't. Almost smells like a conspiracy but ya know what. Not gonna entertain it. Fair is fair as Stephen said. We'll just see what the other investigations pop up.


                      ALSO GIVE US THE DAMN MUELLER REPORT!

                      Comment


                      • #83.6666666667
                        #83.6666666667 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Funny how you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist when I have facts and yet you invoke conspiracy when you simply don't understand something.

                      Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
                      GIVE US THE DAMN MUELLER REPORT!
                      Yeah that has to be the next battle.

                      I trust Mueller not to be a partisan hack and to cut straight to the truth of the matter asserted. I wouldn't trust Barr as far as I could throw him.

                      We know Mueller doesn't think he has legal authority to indict a sitting president (that's an open question of Constitutional Law that's never actually been tested in Court, but hey, details). So Barr summarizing the Mueller report as "no new indictments--nothing to see here--move along" is not an acceptable resolution of this matter. That doesn't really tell us what we need to know.

                      The report has to be made public and people need to see what Mueller found. Congress needs to see what Mueller found.

                      Notably absent from Barr's summary is the answer to the question that really needs to be answered: Did Trump commit criminal acts that Mueller does not believe he can indict because Trump is president? And the correct venue for trying a sitting president is not a grand jury indictment: its impeachment.

                      Maybe Mueller reached that finding. Maybe he didn't. Again--what matters more than the ultimate conclusion itself is fair process and rule-of-law; public confidence that the resolution of the matter was the correct and just outcome, and not a criminal cover-up.

                      As long as the report is being withheld by the White House and all thats being publicly disclosed is the Barr Summary, this still smells like a cover-up.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                        Yeah that has to be the next battle.

                        I trust Mueller not to be a partisan hack and to cut straight to the truth of the matter asserted. I wouldn't trust Barr as far as I could throw him.

                        We know Mueller doesn't think he has legal authority to indict a sitting president (that's an open question of Constitutional Law that's never actually been tested in Court, but hey, details). So Barr summarizing the Mueller report as "no new indictments--nothing to see here--move along" is not an acceptable resolution of this matter. That doesn't really tell us what we need to know.

                        The report has to be made public and people need to see what Mueller found. Congress needs to see what Mueller found.

                        Notably absent from Barr's summary is the answer to the question that really needs to be answered: Did Trump commit criminal acts that Mueller does not believe he can indict because Trump is president? And the correct venue for trying a sitting president is not a grand jury indictment: its impeachment.

                        Maybe Mueller reached that finding. Maybe he didn't. Again--what matters more than the ultimate conclusion itself is fair process and rule-of-law; public confidence that the resolution of the matter was the correct and just outcome, and not a criminal cover-up.

                        As long as the report is being withheld by the White House and all thats being publicly disclosed is the Barr Summary, this still smells like a cover-up.
                        I wouldn’t say it’s a cover up, because if it was, Mueller would probably do what he did with Buzzfeed and speak out. It’s a 4-page report, Mueller would probably have time to analyze it and sniff out any cover-up. That, and the consequences make any sort of motive behind such a thing rather shaky at best even to someone heavily invested in any particular conclusion to this whole thing.

                        But if not and there, oddly enough, was a cover-up...

                        Well, that would leave a lot of questions.

                        Even without suspicions of a cover up, I still believe there’s probably stuff we should know in it. His investigation into matters was extensive, at the least we should see the picture he built up in regards to any of the criminal activity he found and the extent of any Russia matters we’re so curious about; we should know what’s going on to the fullest extent legally possible.

                        That, and the vast majority of Americans want this report public (85-90% in the polls I’ve seen).

                        It’ll also provide more confidence in the justice system that it probably needs right now, in all honesty.
                        Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; March 28th, 2019, 11:54 AM.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post



                          To be far, there was a lot of smoke for it. A shit town of smoke. Like I thought the house was on fire but instead someone burned something in the microwave kinda smoke. The worst of it is because this didn't became true, he is even dumber than I thought. Secondly, you denounced the investigation but didn't give a solid reason why so you sounded like every other Trump supporter.

                          If you had said "Investigation is going no where cause Trump is too stupid to collude" Then I'd be singing a different tone towards you, but that's not how you phrased it. You just went against the very idea of it without showing much acknowledgement to all the bloody smoke everywhere.
                          Basically believed in the narrative because you wanted to, not that there was anything substantial sans what you heard from round the clock purported "bombshells" and hearing from tired fucks like Bernstein comparing this to Watergate.
                          This Heat - Working Night

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Helly View Post
                            lmao why does that guy even show himself in politics any more
                            Did you just come into this conversation to, like a little girl hiding in the background, agree with a passive aggressive comment made towards me? Talk about a weakling. Tell us again Helly, what should weak people do?

                            Sad.

                            Talking about conspiracies now? "Almost smells like a conspiracy "
                            Last edited by #83.6666666667; March 28th, 2019, 12:20 PM.

                            Comment


                              Also while looking for a quote, I found this :"Snowden talked about the NSA in very critical terms. When asked who will be brought to justice after the NSA surveillance programs are revealed, Snowden responded, "In front of US courts? I'm not sure if you're serious [...] Who 'can' be brought up on charges is immaterial when the rule of law is not respected. Laws are meant for you, not for them.""

                              https://mashable.com/2013/07/08/emai.../#4VTYAU0LpgqS

                              If rules don't apply to top brass what hope is there that they apply to the head honcho.

                              It almost seems comical that this is actually being discussed as if Trump were a regular citizen. Not only is he filthy rich, has support from his party and base, he's also president. The only way you get someone like Trump out is by getting the oligarchy to turn on him.

                              Comment


                                Also, anyone noticing that Trump's beginning to go more on the offensive when it comes to the roots of the Mueller investigation...?

                                He's apparently said he plans to release FISA docs, and there's apparently already considerations, at least from some Senate Republicans (Graham, seemingly), about investigating the roots of the investigation; i.e, the people that tried to get the Mueller investigation rolling, the Steele Dossier, etc, all that stuff.

                                Guess we're gonna get some investigation warfare going on between Dems and Reps.

                                Dandy.

                                I think it's a bad idea. Plopping all your eggs into the investigation basket kind of just failed for Democrats and they rightly backed off outside of demanding the full report, I don't think it'll work for Republicans either (I think it's failed to work for them in the past anyway, at that...), so it’ll just muddle things for everyone, most likely.

                                On the other hand, this is probably something the Republican base really wants, because they have been bringing up those very same topics for 2 years now when it came to the Russia investigation and their views of the illegitimacy of such things, with such things being ignored and pushed away in their eyes. Hell, right after Mueller's report blew up in the face of those most convinced that Trump had colluded, right-wing outlets immediately started bringing up the Steele Dossier and all the critiques towards it they'd had for the past 2 years. So Republicans might feel pressure from constituents to follow through with this kind of stuff.

                                In all honesty, tho...

                                Both should put primary focus on policy if they want to win. Learn from the Dems in the '18 Midterms, actually. The candidates they pushed that won didn't say "Oh, Trump colluded with Russia, vote for me," they distinctly focused on policy issues and why their policies should be implemented. And that won them the house (Senate probably went the way it did in part because of the Kavanaugh farce).
                                Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; March 28th, 2019, 02:13 PM.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                                  It almost seems comical that this is actually being discussed as if Trump were a regular citizen. Not only is he filthy rich, has support from his party and base, he's also president. The only way you get someone like Trump out is by getting the oligarchy to turn on him.
                                  The only people that like Trump is his voter base. Republican lawmakers hate him, Democrat lawmakers hate him, big business and banks believe he's too volatile for a stable economy, and other world leaders believe he's a buffoon. Trust me when I saw that nobody wants him to stay in office except for the 30% of the voting base that approves of his tenure as President. lol

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                                    Yea.... I know... and I read that in Trump's voice.. ugh.


                                    Funny enough Pelosi was detouring the party away from this saying impeachment is not worth it. So good move on her to steer the boat early. Secondly, he is claiming this exonerates him when it literally says it doesn't... so... lol. More fake news from main source of fake news himself.

                                    Either way I agree this is a blow to the dems but it is just a multi-level blow. I rather he colluded with Russia, than be so stupid/self centered that he risk the country for his own personal gains in Russia. Cause that's gotta be the only reason right? He wants to build a Tower in Russia, that has got to be the only reason he sided with Russia during this entire mess.

                                    What is even crazier, right is that he had people on his team and nearly 20 russia nationals get indicted over this shit. So how the fuck everyone below him get in bed with Russia but he didn't. Almost smells like a conspiracy but ya know what. Not gonna entertain it. Fair is fair as Stephen said. We'll just see what the other investigations pop up.


                                    ALSO GIVE US THE DAMN MUELLER REPORT!
                                    iirc, the summary states there's no evidence of collusion. That's more or less an exoneration tbh, I'd strongly recommend arguing on a technicality since that's just going to look like dishonest pedantry at best. plus, if the whole thing comes out and it really does turn out that Trump had nothing to do with Russia, that will be the final nail in the coffin for any Russiagaters. Best to just wait and watch developments unfold.

                                    You've got to remember that Trump is Trump. If the dossier from a while back has any truth to it, its not uncommon for people to go over his head or undermine him in other aspects. If his own people do that, it would be doubly easy for any actual conspirators to dupe him.


                                    Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                                    jeez man, one passing remark and you dimly tell me to kms, like calm tf down lmao. maybe stop being wrong about literally everything and I wont have any more reasons to laugh at u....
                                    Last edited by Helly; March 28th, 2019, 03:33 PM.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Helly View Post
                                      iirc, the report states there's no evidence of collusion. That's more or less an exoneration tbh
                                      The report hasn't been released to the public or to Congress. AG Barr's summary of the report says something to the nature of "the investigation did not establish that President Trump or members of his campaign coordinated with the Russian government."

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Cid View Post

                                        The report hasn't been released to the public or to Congress. AG Barr's summary of the report says something to the nature of "the investigation did not establish that President Trump or members of his campaign coordinated with the Russian government."
                                        ah, my b, thats what i meant. i'll ammend my comment right away, dont wanna spread any fake news

                                        Comment

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