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T5 Official Discussion: The Trump Presidency

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    As bad as Trump being in bed with Russia and Saudi Arabia is, Trump isn't any worse than his predecessors Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, or HW Bush when it comes to liking and supporting dictators.

    Comment


      Originally posted by J peth View Post

      Except at this point Trump is no more a puppet of Russia than past presidents were puppets of Saudi Arabia.

      so your hysterics are noted, but unwarranted. It's the same reason I didn't respond to Kajin's post. Even Mueller is focusing on Trump's financial faults rather than any political dealings with Russia
      Hysterics? Oh, fuck off, lol. Especially since you were the one who was needlessly rabble-rousing about Trump being in Saudi Arabia's pocket when he's really no different from any other president in that singular regard (granted, past presidents, including George W., were at least intelligent enough to deal mostly under the table).

      Also, Trump being too fucking stupid to realize that he's Putin's puppet doesn't make it any better; if anything, it makes it worse. Not that any of this matters, mind you, because the Powers-That-Be will undoubtedly flourish off the mass panic and hysteria a conventional war against Russia would incite when Trump finally has enough of the mean MSM (controlled by You-Don't-Know-Who ^) and is all "Fuck it. YOLO." And I hope they're the first to be vaporized in their "safe" spots because the orange man is truly a wild, uncontrollable creature.
      Last edited by Oneiros; December 4th, 2018, 07:15 AM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by J peth View Post

        That specific instance did, but ties between Trump and Moscow is nothing new. I mean he's been trying to get in on Russia since the 80's without much success.
        Except with that instance, Trump had people directly involved in his presidential campaign talking to Russian dignitaries. That makes it quite a lot different than him trying to cut business deals back in the 80s when he was only into real estate.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Raniero View Post
          As bad as Trump being in bed with Russia and Saudi Arabia is, Trump isn't any worse than his predecessors Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, or HW Bush when it comes to liking and supporting dictators.
          Bullllllllllshit

          Show me any other time in history where an American president stood next to an autocratic leader. Fielded questions about assessments from the American intelligence community that said leader was directly involved in attacks against the United States + allied Western European democracies.

          ...and rebuked his own government's assessment + endorsed the autocrat's assurances to the contrary...

          Show me any other time in history when an American president has had a more cordial relationship with Russian oligarchs like Vladamir Putin and tinpot dictators like Rodrigo Duterte than with the democratically elected allied leaders of the UK, France, Canada, and Australia.
          Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; December 4th, 2018, 10:45 AM.

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            Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

            Bullllllllllshit

            Show me any other time in history where an American president stood next to an autocratic leader. Fielded questions about assessments from the American intelligence community that said leader was directly involved in attacks against the United States + allied Western European democracies.

            ...and rebuked his own government's assessment + endorsed the autocrat's assurances to the contrary...

            Show me any other time in history when an American president has had a more cordial relationship with Russian oligarchs like Vladamir Putin and tinpot dictators like Rodrigo Duterte than with the democratically elected allied leaders of the UK, France, Canada, and Australia.
            I mean you could argue that Bush had plenty of photo ops with Saudi leaders post 9/11

            Comment


              Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

              Bullllllllllshit

              Show me any other time in history where an American president stood next to an autocratic leader. Fielded questions about assessments from the American intelligence community that said leader was directly involved in attacks against the United States + allied Western European democracies.

              ...and rebuked his own government's assessment + endorsed the autocrat's assurances to the contrary...

              Show me any other time in history when an American president has had a more cordial relationship with Russian oligarchs like Vladamir Putin and tinpot dictators like Rodrigo Duterte than with the democratically elected allied leaders of the UK, France, Canada, and Australia.
              Not any worse than ignoring obvious human rights violations throughout all of South and Central America in the 70s-80s (and running smear campaigns against reporters that attempted to uncover the truth) and financed billions in dollars of aid to puppet placed dictators and their militaries that killed civilians en masse.

              Comment


                Now Trump in his more recent tweets has went after Cohen saying he should get a full sentence! lol

                Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                Comment


                  So off the topic of Trump himself, I've been thinking about the 2020 democratic field. Of the favorites to run right now, who do you guys think is looking the best?

                  Off the top of my head, I know four likelies.

                  Beto O'Rourke
                  Kamala Harris
                  Elizabeth Warren
                  Joe Biden

                  Personally, I'm looking at O'Rourke and Harris right now. Biden probably has the best shot of winning the primaries, but I don't know how well he's going to do against Trump.

                  Comment


                    Not sure if this is posted here but here is the Chapo take, this shit is funny/sad:

                     

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Cid View Post
                      So off the topic of Trump himself, I've been thinking about the 2020 democratic field. Of the favorites to run right now, who do you guys think is looking the best?

                      Off the top of my head, I know four likelies.

                      Beto O'Rourke
                      Kamala Harris
                      Elizabeth Warren
                      Joe Biden

                      Personally, I'm looking at O'Rourke and Harris right now. Biden probably has the best shot of winning the primaries, but I don't know how well he's going to do against Trump.
                      The only name I've heard is Biden... maybe Elizabeth Warren if someone mentioned her on this site before now.

                      What're the upsides here, do you think?
                      Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
                      Now Trump in his more recent tweets has went after Cohen saying he should get a full sentence! lol
                      Like, after it was determined that Cohen has been super helpful to the investigations? Jesus Christ, what a manchild lol.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Cid View Post
                        So off the topic of Trump himself, I've been thinking about the 2020 democratic field. Of the favorites to run right now, who do you guys think is looking the best?

                        Off the top of my head, I know four likelies.

                        Beto O'Rourke
                        Kamala Harris
                        Elizabeth Warren
                        Joe Biden

                        Personally, I'm looking at O'Rourke and Harris right now. Biden probably has the best shot of winning the primaries, but I don't know how well he's going to do against Trump.
                        O'Rourke isn't ready for the national stage.

                        If a woman or a minority runs, they have to have perfect message discipline and can't fall into the trap of reacting to every thing Trump says + making the campaign all about identity politics. Trump holds the rust belt if the campaign becomes all about identity politics. (every single thing Trump says if hes up against a woman or a minority is going to be a provocation to take it there. Its a trap. Don't do it. Stay on message.)

                        ...I reserve judgment on whether or not Harris or Warren are suitably proficient at avoiding at that trap to merit a nomination until we see some primary debate performances...


                        Biden didn't get any blood on his hands in 2016, will have the full backing of the Obama machine behind him if and when he decides to run, and has the rust belt appeal to capture the swing vote that Hillary lost in Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Pennsylvania .

                        Remains to be seen how those crucial early primary performances shape up.

                        But at this point, I'm tentatively in Biden's corner.

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                          I actually think it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world for the Democrats to do what Republicans did in 2016, and expand their field beyond the roster of conventional politicians to put up business and pop culture icons.

                          I know: some will say Doesn't the shitshow of the Trump prove that's a terrible, terrible idea? No. The problem with Trump is that he's a malignant narcissist with a bundle of unresolved daddy issues where his heart should be, and a shameless conman who doesn't care about whats true or untrue--only about what he can sell. Not that he comes from a business and pop culture background and doesn't have the conventional political resume.

                          We're taking the wrong lesson away from Trump's slow-motion trainwreck if our conclusion is "orthodox political background matters--thats whats missing here. Only career politicians should be president." Not "Character matters. Only persons of integrity and good-repute should be president."


                          I wouldn't mind an Oprah Winfrey or a Mark Cuban getting into the race.

                          I wouldn't necessarily want a Dave Chapelle or a John Stewart as the nominee--but good lord--imagine them on a primary debate stage. The attention that would draw. The soundbites they would drop. The energy that would inject into the race. The direction that would pull more conventional candidates vying for headlines + the way that would force them to adapt their messaging and social media game.


                          ...I think there's definitely something of value to be gained from getting players like that to at least make a loud and vigorous primary showing...
                          Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; December 5th, 2018, 10:54 AM.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post
                            I actually think it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world for the Democrats to do what Republicans did in 2016, and expand their field beyond the roster of conventional politicians to put up business and pop culture icons.

                            I know: some will say Doesn't the shitshow of the Trump prove that's a terrible, terrible idea? No. The problem with Trump is that he's a malignant narcissist with a bundle of unresolved daddy issues where his heart should be, and a shameless conman who doesn't care about whats true or untrue--only about what he can sell. Not that he comes from a business and pop culture background and doesn't have the conventional political resume.

                            We're taking the wrong lesson away from Trump's slow-motion trainwreck if our conclusion is "orthodox political background matters--thats whats missing here. Only career politicians should be president." Not "Character matters. Only persons of integrity and good-repute should be president."


                            I wouldn't mind an Oprah Winfrey or a Mark Cuban getting into the race.

                            I wouldn't necessarily want a Dave Chapelle or a John Stewart as the nominee--but good lord--imagine them on a primary debate stage. The attention that would draw. The soundbites they would drop. The energy that would inject into the race. The direction that would pull more conventional candidates vying for headlines + the way that would force them to adapt their messaging and social media game.


                            ...I think there's definitely something of value to be gained from getting players like that to at least make a loud and vigorous primary showing...
                            The implications of Dave Chapelle running for president, though... I really don't want to see an election that comes down to "Who has the most star power" and "Who can make the most headlines", because at a certain point I'd start to worry that running based on name recognition alone becomes the dominant trend.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                              The implications of Dave Chapelle running for president, though... I really don't want to see an election that comes down to "Who has the most star power" and "Who can make the most headlines", because at a certain point I'd start to worry that running based on name recognition alone becomes the dominant trend.
                              Chapelle has legit political acumen.

                              Herman fucking Cain ran for president--dude didn't know how to talk about anything but selling pizza.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                                The implications of Dave Chapelle running for president, though... I really don't want to see an election that comes down to "Who has the most star power" and "Who can make the most headlines", because at a certain point I'd start to worry that running based on name recognition alone becomes the dominant trend.
                                We have had two Bush's (three who have tried) 1 Clition (two who have tried) and one Obama (another who has hinted at a run) running based on name recognition has always been a thing. Americans are stupid and stick with what they know.

                                Comment


                                  Just to clarify, I'm not saying that a lot of candidates we have aren't terrible, I'm just saying that I think it'll get worse once you open those floodgates.

                                  Remember, Kanye West threatened to run next election.

                                  Originally posted by EnemyOfDaState View Post

                                  We have had two Bush's (three who have tried) 1 Clition (two who have tried) and one Obama (another who has hinted at a run) running based on name recognition has always been a thing. Americans are stupid and stick with what they know.
                                  That's why it worries me that we might branch out from "at least they're politicians" to "Hey, that guy's funny!"

                                  The less that name recognition has to do with politics, the more dangerous it becomes.
                                  Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post
                                  Chapelle has legit political acumen.

                                  Herman fucking Cain ran for president--dude didn't know how to talk about anything but selling pizza.
                                  to be fair, Herman Cain was just there so Republicans could say they weren't racist for not voting Obama.
                                  Last edited by OrganizationXV; December 5th, 2018, 11:42 AM.

                                  Comment


                                    I'd really, really like to see some intelligent people running for the office. Like, not just cunning and good at politics. But actual accomplished people, like scientists.

                                    You want to see some actual problem solving done in the White House? Put an engineer in there. I promise you that an engineer would actually get some shit done.

                                    But of the people I named above, Harris is my favorite so far. I don't think democrats need to run another establishment candidate. And as bad as it is to make it about race and gender... They don't need to run another old white guy either. (Sorry Bernie, I still love you mate.)

                                    The midterms showed, very loudly in fact, that the party needs to skew younger and be more diverse. Something like half of the democrats just elected for congress were women and there were a ton of minorities in there. If the party backed Biden, even with his credentials and with the backing of the Obama machine, I feel like it would do little else than split the party much like 2016 did.

                                    Comment


                                      I doubt it, just because you get someone smart in there, it doesn't mean that the political machine that is Washington will allow them to do anything. You'd have to get smart people in everywhere, and that is a pipe-dream.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Chaos Theory View Post
                                        I doubt it, just because you get someone smart in there, it doesn't mean that the political machine that is Washington will allow them to do anything. You'd have to get smart people in everywhere, and that is a pipe-dream.
                                        We just elected seven science-credentialed people to congress, including three engineers. So maybe not.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Chaos Theory View Post
                                          I doubt it, just because you get someone smart in there, it doesn't mean that the political machine that is Washington will allow them to do anything. You'd have to get smart people in everywhere, and that is a pipe-dream.
                                          It's kind of a pipe dream to assume that your single vote will make a difference anyway. If you're going to ignore numbers and aim for an ideal, you might as well aim high.

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