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    Originally posted by Cid View Post
    Part of me always wonders, however, what a communistic state would look like if it weren't full of facism, authoritarianism, and filled to the brim with corruption.

    Communism is one of those things, it looks absolutely amazing on paper but when it is put into practice, it always turns out pretty horribly for all but a few.
    The end goal is what looks really cool...but not the path to getting there, lol.

    Just one little problem with the path to the utopia is that Karl Marx and Engels even supported the "abolition of eternal truths," which includes, explicitly stated in texts, morality of all things, that would occur with the advent of the World Socialist Revolution.

    Which is one of the least foreboding things to come out of those two...

    Comment


      Say what you want about Marx, but at least his ideology killed a lot of commies.

      Comment


      • RussianCoffeeAddict
        Editing a comment
        This is the most hilarious (albeit, darkly) aspect of Communism in practice. Not even being a die-hard Commie could save you from the bullshit, lol.

      Originally posted by Cid View Post

      Would it actually be the Utopia that they claim?
      The concept of the utopia is actually rather dystopian in and of itself:



      Basically, to make a fat hill, you need a deep hole.

      Communism's goal at its most basic is to create the "New Communist Man," a person who lives in a society without classes. This is supposed to be a person who can basically do anything on a whim and is absolutely and completely selfless.

      Solzhenitsyn wraps up the problem pretty well:

      Originally posted by Solzhenitsyn
      If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
      -The Gulag Archipelago, Volume 1, page 168.
      Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; July 6th, 2018, 11:18 PM.

      Comment


        I'm not convinced the ideal communistic or socialist states could survive, economically, for extended periods of time. The idea that all people are equal economically seems foolish.

        Everyone can't be wealthy. As much as it sucks, you have to have a lower class. People that perform the menial tasks that most others would't. And you can't pay those people as well as you do highly skilled workers because that destroys motivation to be one of those workers. Becoming an engineer is hard, why would I do it if I could just bag groceries and be just as well off?

        And a government simply cannot afford to pick up the slack entirely and make life easier for everyone that has a low income. The United States spends trillions per year on what little we actually do for the poor in our country. Adding a single payer healthcare system and funding two-year degrees would add tens of billions to that. We could probably do that with the right tax plan, but could we spend trillions more to expand it to 40 or 50 percent of the population? Not and be sustainable.

        Last edited by Cid; July 6th, 2018, 11:19 PM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Cid View Post
          I'm not convinced the ideal communistic or socialist states could survive, economically, for extended periods of time. The idea that all people are equal economically seems foolish.

          Everyone can't be wealthy. As much as it sucks, you have to have a lower class. People that perform the menial tasks that most others would't. And you can't pay those people as well as you do highly skilled workers because that destroys motivation to be one of those workers. Becoming an engineer is hard, why would I do it if I could just bag groceries and be just as well off?

          And a government simply cannot afford to pick up the slack entirely and make life easier for everyone that has a low income. The United States spends trillions per year on what little we actually do for the poor in our country. Adding a single payer healthcare system and funding two-year degrees would add tens of billions to that. We could probably do that with the right tax plan, but could we spend trillions more to expand it to 40 or 50 percent of the population? Not and be sustainable.
          It also foolishly assumes everyone will be content with their economic situation in the “ideal” and no one will want to branch off.

          But that simply won’t happen.
          Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; July 7th, 2018, 12:07 AM.

          Comment


            Communism only works out with extremely communities. The larger the scale, the more open it is to corruption and the harder it is to distribute resources imo

            Comment


              Originally posted by -Person- View Post
              Communism only works out with extremely communities. The larger the scale, the more open it is to corruption and the harder it is to distribute resources imo
              That's what I was thinking. It's probably the perfect type of government for like, an island nation with a few hundred people. Corruption would be less likely to occur because it'd be a lot easier to get rid of it when it did.

              Comment


                Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post
                The concept of the utopia is actually rather dystopian in and of itself
                Literally brainlet status
                Originally posted by Oneiros
                In that case, I’m the biggest faggot on the block.

                Comment


                  RussianCoffeeAddict

                  On the topic of Norway, socialism isnt meant to do away with money,class, and capitalism all together like with communism.It's meant to those things and focus to value create by labour towards the working class.

                  Norway is like halfway because the state regulates those things and with the same intent of bringing equality to classes, but doesn't try to outright control them like a fully socialist country.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Cid View Post

                    That's what I was thinking. It's probably the perfect type of government for like, an island nation with a few hundred people. Corruption would be less likely to occur because it'd be a lot easier to get rid of it when it did.
                    Yeah and imo, capitalism on tiny island like that would be impossible.

                    Comment


                      So, any thoughts about the Trump balloon?

                      Comment


                        I think it's childish but harmless.

                        it'll be a good laugh for a city that trump has continually insulted.

                        Comment


                          Trump should be used to this type of protest by now. He gets opposition at every turn, there was even a statue of him here in the US for a while that depicted him with an extremely small penis and nobody cared. The balloon is inconsequential, anyone making a big deal of it is an idiot.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

                            And this is exactly why Socialism and Communism will never be more practical, or more moral, than what the rest of the developed world's already got.

                            A Social Democracy has Capitalism and a democratic structure with reasonable limits applied to the system as a whole to prevent excesses.

                            The other two...


                            ^Pretty much the driving concept.

                            Reasonable limits to prevent excess, hm?

                            So like... universal healthcare to prevent excessive deaths and disabilities, allowing more people to be in the work place, and more people contributing to society as a whole.

                            So like... a living wage so no one is excessively poor; stuck under crippling debt; able to defend themselves in court; have money in the back for a rainy day like your car breaking down; and never having to live paycheck to paycheck.

                            So like... prison systems that actual reform criminals to be better people and benefit society; like that a 21 year old who got caught with pot doesn't have his entire life ruined and unable to get a job but instead be a productive human being.

                            So like... affordable housing so everyone can have a roof over their heads, feel accomplished, have a place for their family and things. Instead of ya know living in cramp apartments with noisy neighbors, powerless to fix the place up even if you had the money and no way to really call it a private home.

                            So like... cheap utilities so that your water/power/phone bills aren't the most demanding bill. You know, those things that are basically essential to live in a modern society. I mean if we were in a shithole country then sure it might not be a big deal to not pay that water bill this month, just go over a mountain and get some water from the river but not here in this concrete jungle, naw uh!

                            So like... cheap affordable healthy food, because apparently a meal in McDonalds is cheaper than buying healthy food. Hell it is still cheaper than if you went and bought the ingredients for your own burgers to make.


                            Oh but wait, that's communism! Sorry about that. We can't have those things. The so call American dream of a single home, a garage, a family, money in the bank and a happy life is reserved to only the upper middle class. Fuck everyone else below that line.

                            Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                            I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Cid View Post
                              I'm not convinced the ideal communistic or socialist states could survive, economically, for extended periods of time. The idea that all people are equal economically seems foolish.

                              Everyone can't be wealthy. As much as it sucks, you have to have a lower class. People that perform the menial tasks that most others would't. And you can't pay those people as well as you do highly skilled workers because that destroys motivation to be one of those workers. Becoming an engineer is hard, why would I do it if I could just bag groceries and be just as well off?

                              And a government simply cannot afford to pick up the slack entirely and make life easier for everyone that has a low income. The United States spends trillions per year on what little we actually do for the poor in our country. Adding a single payer healthcare system and funding two-year degrees would add tens of billions to that. We could probably do that with the right tax plan, but could we spend trillions more to expand it to 40 or 50 percent of the population? Not and be sustainable.
                              tens of billions... so like.. that 100 billion Trump added to the military's spending?

                              Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                              I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                                tens of billions... so like.. that 100 billion Trump added to the military's spending?
                                Trump is bad, therefore communism works?

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post


                                  Reasonable limits to prevent excess, hm?

                                  So like... universal healthcare to prevent excessive deaths and disabilities, allowing more people to be in the work place, and more people contributing to society as a whole.

                                  So like... a living wage so no one is excessively poor; stuck under crippling debt; able to defend themselves in court; have money in the back for a rainy day like your car breaking down; and never having to live paycheck to paycheck.

                                  So like... prison systems that actual reform criminals to be better people and benefit society; like that a 21 year old who got caught with pot doesn't have his entire life ruined and unable to get a job but instead be a productive human being.

                                  So like... affordable housing so everyone can have a roof over their heads, feel accomplished, have a place for their family and things. Instead of ya know living in cramp apartments with noisy neighbors, powerless to fix the place up even if you had the money and no way to really call it a private home.

                                  So like... cheap utilities so that your water/power/phone bills aren't the most demanding bill. You know, those things that are basically essential to live in a modern society. I mean if we were in a shithole country then sure it might not be a big deal to not pay that water bill this month, just go over a mountain and get some water from the river but not here in this concrete jungle, naw uh!

                                  So like... cheap affordable healthy food, because apparently a meal in McDonalds is cheaper than buying healthy food. Hell it is still cheaper than if you went and bought the ingredients for your own burgers to make.


                                  Oh but wait, that's communism! Sorry about that. We can't have those things. The so call American dream of a single home, a garage, a family, money in the bank and a happy life is reserved to only the upper middle class. Fuck everyone else below that line.
                                  When everyone's rich, no one will be.
                                  Originally posted by Oneiros
                                  In that case, I’m the biggest faggot on the block.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                                    tens of billions... so like.. that 100 billion Trump added to the military's spending?
                                    Yeah. Providing healthcare and education is entirely possible. Americans are just dumb.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                                      Trump is bad, therefore communism works?
                                      Naw. Communism is an exaggerating of the point I'm trying to make.

                                      We don't need to have bums in the streets begging for money because they lost everything just so a tiny few can be immensely rich.
                                      We don't need to have dentists with a quarter million in debt just so a tiny few can be immensely rich.
                                      We don't need americans struggling to make ends met just so a few can be immensely rich.
                                      We don't need prisons to treat people like zoo animals just so a few can be immensely rich.
                                      We don't need food, utilities, or even a home to be so expensive just so a few can be immensely rich.


                                      Why must a person working a min-wage job need welfare and another 3-4 people working to make ends met? Why must it all be so expensive? You see when the poor is so poor that they have to work a full time job AND get government welfare AND stack themselves in tiny apartments then you got a major problem in the system.

                                      We don't need private companies regulating the market value of food, education and utilities. We all know they are in it for the money and in a capitalized society a higher price equals more profits. Yet these are basic necessities we have to all pay for. So why do we have to pay sky high prices for medicore products? It is not like that expensive pack of veggies has 3x the vitamins you need. Unless you are going to Harvard or Yale no one really cares what college you went to. I am getting nothing extra out of my sky high utilities prices either. It doesn't make sense to me.

                                      Keep capitalism for luxury items aka anything that isn't a necessity. Video games, clothes, furniture, cars, etc etc. Let those prices be regulated by market demand but why does a bag of apples have to be regulated by market demand? What fucking demand? It is a bloody apple! Why must college be so expensive when everyone already has a bachelor's degree. How has the lack of demand not brought down college education prices? Why must my water bill and electric bill rival my cell phone bill? It is not like the water company has upkept to pay for. Clearly with all the pipes breaking in the past few years across my city they have done shit all when it comes to maintenance. So why do get the rule me and decide if I get water or not? I should be the one threatening them for not fixing my road after they repair a water main pipe and it has been months since they fixed it.

                                      We talk about markets regulating prices but for these things the markets are not. We consumers have no power. These companies have no rivals. The market they are in has no competitors and so we get ass fucked because of it. Yet still... why must the necessities to live in a modern society be so steep?

                                      If the right laws were in places, if tax money was done right. I wouldn't care if billionaires made 10 million less; if millionaires made 1 million less, than they are use to. If it got people out of poverty and welfare, and gave them a path to progress up the success ladder, then it was worth it. You may think that is extreme but come on, if a person was making 5 billion a year, having them make 10 million less is not going to make them lose their 1%er status.

                                      Finally and ultimately, give the poor something. Give the poor one of these things (Lower living expensives; education; or health care). Something. Give them a platform to pick themselves and support themselves and provide a path to success. Let them decide if they want to be better, but don't let every where they turn to ask for a handle out. That's just wrong. How is a person at the bottom of the poverty ladder suppose to be successful if they are living in the streets? How is a guy suppose to get a job if he can't even take a shower and wear some nice clothes for his interview?

                                      How poor must a person be before we as a society go "Ok.. you need help. Let's pick you up."

                                      I'm not saying give the poorest person $80,000 a year. I am not saying give them $50,000 a year. Hell in some states just getting $30,000 a year is lower middle class. However... people making $15,000 a year are going to be on welfare and government housing. Your tax money is going to those people when companies could pay them better, pay them just enough to survive without support. Now sure an immediate rise in price will hurt these companies. There's no way around it. However everyone will suffer the same and besides it is not like we are giving them anything else like free college. So that a person struggling to make ends met and is on welfare can educate themselves on the needed skills to pull themselves out of poverty. We aren't even that nice.

                                      Something has to give.

                                      Yea there's a lot of rambling here. Apologies for that but this is a multi-faceted topic where everything is interlinked.

                                      Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                                      I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                                      Comment


                                      • OrganizationXV
                                        OrganizationXV commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Okay, that I totally agree with.

                                      Special counsel Robert Mueller has obtained a new indictment charging 12 Russian intelligence officers with hacking Democrats to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, and with stealing information of about 500,000 American voters, the Justice Department announced Friday.

                                      Rosenstein said, the "conspirators created fictitious online personas, including 'DCLeaks' and 'Guccifer 2.0,' and used them to release thousands of stolen emails and other documents, beginning in June 2016."

                                      However, the indictment says that “The Conspirators, posing as Guccifer 2.0, also communicated with U.S. Personas about the release of stolen documents. On or about August 15, 2016, the Conspirators, posing as Guccifer 2.0, wrote to a person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump, ‘thank u for writing back … do u find anyt[h]ing interesting in the docs I posted?’”

                                      https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/13/spec...ers-with-.html
                                      Clearly no conspiracy.

                                      *coughscoughs*

                                      Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                                      I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                                      Comment

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