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    #21
    Originally posted by EnemyOfDaState
    Never got this logic, how are you going to assemble 44 (minimum) people and play a game of tackle football? Who are you cage fighting? The appeal of sports is watching the greatest athletes in the world compete against each other, you don't have to enjoy it but the appeal is obvious.
    Join a team? Apply for matches? I would have said that I just don't like sports but the thing is that even as a gamer, I can never get through watching a playthrough or a match between strangers playing games I like either. I apply this to board games as well; air hockey, etc. The fun is in playing, not watching. So I guess I stick by the original statement.

    Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril
    May as well never watch movies, listen to songs, or read books either then. You could be creating them yourself.
    Incomparable

    Originally posted by Wade
    Some people watch every major Starcraft Tournament. I used to watch maybe one or two professional matches per month. Now I only watch one or two professional matches per year. Protech is reallly the best player, but he doesn't play 1vs1 he got bored with it. He plays 2vs2. He's beaten some of the best 1vs1 specialists in 1vs1 and especially 2vs2 so I know he's the best player. The 1vs1 Pros are 5 standard deviation players, but Protech is a 7 standard deviation player So he's as far beyond other Grand Masters as they are beyond Diamond players, two leagues below them..

    I've seen Protech 1vs2 against two Master's League players while his Gold league ally did nothing....and win th egame, which is insane. I can't last more than 5 minutes against a Masters League player.
    It seems to me that you stopped enjoying watching the game itself and now just want to follow the journey of a specific player.

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      #22
      Originally posted by One of Them View Post
      Join a team? Apply for matches? I would have said that I just don't like sports but the thing is that even as a gamer, I can never get through watching a playthrough or a match between strangers playing games I like either. I apply this to board games as well; air hockey, etc. The fun is in playing, not watching. So I guess I stick by the original statement.

      Incomparable

      It seems to me that you stopped enjoying watching the game itself and now just want to follow the journey of a specific player.
      ProTech is definitely the best player in the world. There are only a few "Random" Grand Masters, including one of the developers of the game, and PureLegacy, but PureLegacy is a map hacker and gets banned every season.

      The korean "MC" was known to "race swap" between Terran and Protoss on occasion, Allegedly he played both races at Grand Master skill level, but I never actually saw him play Terran in a real tournament. he retired anyway, so he no longer counts. I've seen about of 100 or so of ProTech's games as each race, so probably 300 games I've watched of him, and he understands the game far beyond any other Professional player. he can explain exactly why he does everything in the game in every detail, as he's doing it, which most professional gamers cannot explain their actions after the fact.

      Also in 2v2 there are like 20 times as many combat unit combinations to master, and ProTech knows exactly what to do no matter what the opponents are doing. He has a precise plan of action no matter how the game unfolds, and his execution is flawless.

      I've never seen Protech "Over-train" any unit besides Phoenixes, but he even won that game with nothing but pure Phoenixes and a few zealots, so he was never punished for it. He killed one player's entire economy with a Phoenix rush, and that player quit, then the other player counter attacked with a full army including archons, and Protech microed his Phoenixes and killed the entire army. So he wasn't punished anyway.


      ProTech plays at about 300 average actions per minute for an entire game, and plays about 400 to 450 average actions per minute during the climax of the game. He's also one of the few professsional gamers who never spams keys, so his actions per minute is a good gauge of his real rate of play.
      Last edited by Wade; August 5th, 2019, 08:45 AM.

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        #23
        Sorry, I don't mean to be intentionally hogging the blog, but it is my off day from work, so I have nothing better to do than sit around replying to every post.

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          #24
          Originally posted by One of Them View Post
          Join a team? Apply for matches? I would have said that I just don't like sports but the thing is that even as a gamer, I can never get through watching a playthrough or a match between strangers playing games I like either. I apply this to board games as well; air hockey, etc. The fun is in playing, not watching. So I guess I stick by the original statement.

          Incomparable

          It seems to me that you stopped enjoying watching the game itself and now just want to follow the journey of a specific player.
          You as a grown man (and i'm assuming with average/below average physical abilities) is going to join a football league and fight in a catch match..... alright pimp. The fact that sports (just in NA) are a $100 billion dollar industry capable of supporting countless dedicated sports channels and single handedly revitalizing cities (see Sacramento after the Kings moved into their downtown) says otherwise.

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            #25
            Originally posted by EnemyOfDaState View Post
            You as a grown man (and i'm assuming with average/below average physical abilities) is going to join a football league and fight in a catch match..... alright pimp. The fact that sports (just in NA) are a $100 billion dollar industry capable of supporting countless dedicated sports channels and single handedly revitalizing cities (see Sacramento after the Kings moved into their downtown) says otherwise.
            Playing in an extravagant league with millions of viewers is the only option? You play where you can, but you may play regardless

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              #26
              Originally posted by Wade View Post

              ProTech is definitely the best player in the world. There are only a few "Random" Grand Masters, including one of the developers of the game, and PureLegacy, but PureLegacy is a map hacker and gets banned every season.

              The korean "MC" was known to "race swap" between Terran and Protoss on occasion, Allegedly he played both races at Grand Master skill level, but I never actually saw him play Terran in a real tournament. he retired anyway, so he no longer counts. I've seen about of 100 or so of ProTech's games as each race, so probably 300 games I've watched of him, and he understands the game far beyond any other Professional player. he can explain exactly why he does everything in the game in every detail, as he's doing it, which most professional gamers cannot explain their actions after the fact.

              Also in 2v2 there are like 20 times as many combat unit combinations to master, and ProTech knows exactly what to do no matter what the opponents are doing. He has a precise plan of action no matter how the game unfolds, and his execution is flawless.

              I've never seen Protech "Over-train" any unit besides Phoenixes, but he even won that game with nothing but pure Phoenixes and a few zealots, so he was never punished for it. He killed one player's entire economy with a Phoenix rush, and that player quit, then the other player counter attacked with a full army including archons, and Protech microed his Phoenixes and killed the entire army. So he wasn't punished anyway.


              ProTech plays at about 300 average actions per minute for an entire game, and plays about 400 to 450 average actions per minute during the climax of the game. He's also one of the few professsional gamers who never spams keys, so his actions per minute is a good gauge of his real rate of play.
              I'm sorry to say I'm not familiar with the game

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                #27
                It's not. Presumably, neither you nor your friends have the capability or the talent to play pro 'ball. I do enjoy playing when I can, yes, but I also enjoy watching people whose literal career path is playing sports at the highest level doing their thing. The appeal is there, whether you want to admit to it or not.
                Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; August 5th, 2019, 01:37 PM.

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                  #28
                  Originally posted by Lord L'Zoril View Post
                  It's not. Presumably, neither you nor your friends have the capability or the talent to play pro 'ball. I do enjoy playing when I can, yes, but I also enjoy watching people whose literal career path is playing sports at the highest level doing their thing. The appeal is there, whether you want to admit to it or not.
                  Like I said before, I can't watch strangers compete in games that I do like, pro or otherwise. It's not fun. I just don't see it.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by One of Them View Post
                    I'm sorry to say I'm not familiar with the game
                    Put it this way. Protech is better at Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 than Roger Federer is at Tennis.

                    As I said, I've watched over 300 of Protech's Master/Grand Master level games, and I've never seen him make a mistake legitimately worth criticizing. There is literally no room for improvement in his game.

                    Even the fact he can maintain 300 to 450 average actions per minute in a 15 minutes game is ridiculous, but he plays that way every game, and 99% of his actions are not spam, they are actually calculated strategic, tactical, economical actions with no wasted effort and no mistakes.

                    I can't even begin to suggest a way to defeat him without map hacking, and even the next best player can never beat him except by map hacking.

                    Even if you map hack, you are not guaranteed to beat Protech, he could still overwhelm you with pure knowledge and APM power.


                    and protech is actually even better at Starcraft 1 than he is at Starcraft 2. I've seen Protech 1vs2 two A+ players in Starcraft 1.

                    I am a C+ player at STarcraft 1, but I have managed to defeat an A+ player on a few occasions, I also defeated Gretorp on two occasions and he was a professional gamer at about that time...but Protech can 1vs2 against A+ players. It's ridiculous how good he is at Broodwar. He should have gone pro in Broodwar (starcraft 1) and beat the Koreans, but he's more interested in Starcraft 2 actually, but he's unbeatable at Starcraft 1 too.

                    G5 beat Boxer who was allegedly the best Starcraft 1 player ever, but Protech is actually better than Boxer or G5 at their peaks. The average Korean Pro is a 5th standard deviation player, same a Starcraft 2, boxer is probably a 6th Standard Devaition player. G5 and Protech are 7th Standard Deviation players.

                    I used to play 3vs3 with Gretorp and G5 as my allies. We won every game we ever played together except one game. Even though they were both 1vs1 specialists, we had 3vs3 figured out ot the point we could beat anybody within 5 minutes flat....watch the opponent lay their first structure or two with your SCV scout, and predict their build blind and then just counter it, and game over. It was funny as hell.


                    Pure Legacy is a 5th Standard Deviation player who map hacks, so he can beat Protech sometimes when map hacking. So every season when "somebody" appears who starts to win a few games against protech, protech has to research the replay files and prove it's another PureLegacy clone account....the cheater buys the game again every season after he gets banned again, and map hacks and plays the game map hacking again. When map hacking, PureLegacy is a seventh standard deviation player; that's how big of a difference map hacking makes...about two entire leagues worth of skill gaps is represneted by map hacking

                    Other then Purelegacy, nobody wins any games against Protech unless Protech is paired with a hopelessly pathetic Gold League ally, even then Protech might solo two Masters league players by himself.
                    Last edited by Wade; August 5th, 2019, 11:40 PM.

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                      #30
                      I agree with the gamers are the new weebs
                      If anything its a gateway to weeb world

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                        #31
                        dude had to be better then 40 million or so other people and he won what was it 3 mill?

                        Hate em or not pro gamers have skill that normal people don't and they get paid for it

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                          #32
                          Originally posted by Dr. Scientist View Post
                          dude had to be better then 40 million or so other people and he won what was it 3 mill?

                          Hate em or not pro gamers have skill that normal people don't and they get paid for it
                          hi :]

                          Originally posted by Nerise View Post
                          I agree with the gamers are the new weebs
                          If anything its a gateway to weeb world
                          Shameful.
                          Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; August 9th, 2019, 06:39 PM. Reason: wtf lmao

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                          • Dr. Scientist
                            Dr. Scientist commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Child lol just the one, I might give in for number two somewhere down the line but for now just one

                            Edit: unless you count the dog he's a big baby too, the cat would be the one to protect the house from intruders and his big ass would be hiding
                            Last edited by Dr. Scientist; August 9th, 2019, 07:09 PM.

                          • Lord L'Zoril
                            Lord L'Zoril commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Ooh, right. Boy or girl? I think being an only child would suck, but I guess the most important thing is how well off you are. Pointless having multiple kids if you can't support them.

                            LOL, you literally own "Courage" irl.
                            Last edited by Lord L'Zoril; August 9th, 2019, 07:25 PM.

                          • Dr. Scientist
                            Dr. Scientist commented
                            Editing a comment
                            little princess/ serial killer. And yeah he's courage except he does look dangerous at least but like I said it would be the cat ninja-ing people from the rafters protecting the family if anything every went down

                          #33
                          The funny part about this is that I had someone tell me that this shows gaming is as viable a career path as Football or Basketball and parents will start pushing their kids into gaming. This kid had to beat out millions of other people to get into the tournament and then win a 100 man tournament to make $3 million, Sheldon Mack is a garbage NBA player who averaged 2 points a game last year on one of the worst teams and barely plays.... he made $2.4 million.

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                            #34
                            Originally posted by Dr. Scientist View Post
                            dude had to be better then 40 million or so other people and he won what was it 3 mill?

                            Hate em or not pro gamers have skill that normal people don't and they get paid for it
                            Yeah, this is especially true in RTS games like Starcraft, where there are some players with crazy high actions per minute and reaction speed. How many people in the world can average 10 clicks a second across an entire tournament all the while being the best player at that game?
                            Last edited by Louay; August 9th, 2019, 06:55 PM.

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                              #35
                              Yeah sounds pretty boring watching super athletes do their sport. I’d rather just go kick a ball around myself and have more fun being mediocre

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                                #36
                                Originally posted by Don Tigris View Post
                                Yeah sounds pretty boring watching super athletes do their sport. I’d rather just go kick a ball around myself and have more fun being mediocre
                                What I understand from this post: you watch sports to admire players that play in ways that you can't or don't plan to achieve. Correct me

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                                  #37
                                  Originally posted by One of Them View Post
                                  I dunno, maybe there is no such competition as of yet that is entertaining enough to be enjoyed as a spectator alone. I rather play myself than watch strangers do it unless I were gambling or something
                                  You could apply this to basically any form of life performance, though....music concerts, live drawing/painting sessions, dance/opera, the list goes on and on. They're all activities you could do yourself especially if you're an exceptionally talented person, but it's still interesting watching these things be done on a high level even if you do practice these things yourself. In fact it should be doubly fascinating for anyone who wants to become better at their craft. Just look at chess - a huge part of getting better at that game will be learning what the pros are doing and trying to adopt some of their techniques into your playing. And watching the greatest individuals perform in something you care about is its own form of art appreciation, undoubtedly. This is why so many people do it, and why they will continue onwards forever. If you don't understand, then something is fundamentally flawed with your idea of what it is that is being appreciated.

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                                    #38
                                    but weebs arent oppressed

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                                      #39
                                      Originally posted by Helly View Post
                                      You could apply this to basically any form of life performance, though....music concerts, live drawing/painting sessions, dance/opera, the list goes on and on. They're all activities you could do yourself especially if you're an exceptionally talented person, but it's still interesting watching these things be done on a high level even if you do practice these things yourself.
                                      Music is meant to be listened to. Food is to be tasted. Drawings, movies, theater performances are meant to be watched and/or heard. Games are designed to be played.

                                      In fact it should be doubly fascinating for anyone who wants to become better at their craft. Just look at chess - a huge part of getting better at that game will be learning what the pros are doing and trying to adopt some of their techniques into your playing.
                                      And I understand that in people that watch the sports or games that they play. I don't understand the idea of preferring to watch a couple of strangers do what is designed to be played rather than playing it yourself.

                                      And watching the greatest individuals perform in something you care about is its own form of art appreciation, undoubtedly. This is why so many people do it, and why they will continue onwards forever. If you don't understand, then something is fundamentally flawed with your idea of what it is that is being appreciated.
                                      Is you opinion, but answer me this: do you see the appeal of watching videos of people eating your favorite foods?

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                                        #40
                                        Originally posted by One of Them View Post
                                        Music is meant to be listened to. Food is to be tasted. Drawings, movies, theater performances are meant to be watched and/or heard. Games are designed to be played.
                                        You're not paying attention to my comment. I'm talking about the live performance aspect for a reason, not just the end product. It's watching people perform at a higher level that is its own form of entertainment and/or art appreciation.


                                        And I understand that in people that watch the sports or games that they play. I don't understand the idea of preferring to watch a couple of strangers do what is designed to be played rather than playing it yourself.
                                        Like I said, the point is appreciating these things at a higher level. The element of competition heightens the entertainment value even further because there are actual stakes involved. And it's not like these people stop playing their games altogether.


                                        Is you opinion, but answer me this: do you see the appeal of watching videos of people eating your favorite foods?
                                        Yes, actually, react channels can be pretty fascinating to me as someone interested in the human mind. Even from an objective point of view, reaction channels are actually pretty popular, so obviously there's an appeal there. It's not the same appeal that moves someone to watch a game between Kasparov and Carlson, or Brazil and Germany, but there is an appeal all the same.

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