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    Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

    It was a shitpost, bruh.

    I've already gone through the motions and at this point don't take the topic much more seriously than Doc does.

    Less, frankly. Animals get left in a pile of their guts all the time in nature if there's even anything left of them at the end. For food.

    And we don't call them douchebags for it.
    "hehe i sure trolled that Abe kid, sending him photos of that n****r we lynched two days ago"

    Ok



    Animals also rape, cannibalize, and commit infanticide, so are those okay for us, too?

    Comment


      Originally posted by Helly View Post

      "hehe i sure trolled that Abe kid, sending him photos of that n****r we lynched two days ago"

      Ok



      Animals also rape, cannibalize, and commit infanticide, so are those okay for us, too?
      Animals do all of that out of instinct or for similarly amoral reasons.

      ...Human beings on the other hand...

      Yeah, I think humans beat out animals in the "How dickish can they be" category.

      There's not an equivalence.

      Killing something lower on the food chain to feed yourself has existed since time immemorial. Animals do it. We do it.

      It's the food chain in action.

      And it's never been pretty.
      Last edited by RussianCoffeeAddict; December 9th, 2019, 04:32 AM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by RussianCoffeeAddict View Post

        Animals do all of that out of instinct or for similarly amoral reasons.

        ...Human beings on the other hand...

        Yeah, I think humans beat out animals in the "How dickish can they be" category.

        There's not an equivalence.

        Killing something lower on the food chain to feed yourself has existed since time immemorial. Animals do it. We do it.

        It's the food chain in action.

        And it's never been pretty.
        So....to pull a Cathy Newman here, what you're saying is that we are above primal instincts. So, then we can't really point to what goes on in nature as justification for raping, cannibalizing, or mass murdering. Which means that we can rule out "it's natural" as a fallacy. Thus, simply pointing to the food chain meme isn't sufficient to say whether or not an action is moral. You need something more than nature to justify the atrocities committed by the billions each year against animals.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Helly View Post

          I mean what was the point of that comment

          Was it supposed to be an argument? Deer eat birds therefore let's keep holocausting cows, chickens, and pigs?......???????? It's a complete non-sequitur.....
          Just some more animal facts for you to know, that's all.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Helly View Post

            So....to pull a Cathy Newman here, what you're saying is that we are above primal instincts. So, then we can't really point to what goes on in nature as justification for raping, cannibalizing, or mass murdering. Which means that we can rule out "it's natural" as a fallacy. Thus, simply pointing to the food chain meme isn't sufficient to say whether or not an action is moral. You need something more than nature to justify the atrocities committed by the billions each year against animals.
            Meanwhile! I say "it's natural" to all of that; even the raping, cannabalizing, and mass murders. We humans however do not wish to be the victims of such things and so we invented laws, god and morals to help keep one another check and encourage cooperation to help better all of mankind.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

              Meanwhile! I say "it's natural" to all of that; even the raping, cannabalizing, and mass murders. We humans however do not wish to be the victims of such things and so we invented laws, god and morals to help keep one another check and encourage cooperation to help better all of mankind.
              Sure.....and what I'm saying is there is no logically coherent reason for granting those things to ourselves yet denying it to animals. Not while you hold to the idea that slavery, patriarchy, and the Holocaust are all immoral things, anyway.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Chibz View Post

                This is some really low effort trolling.
                It is.

                It really...really is.

                Do better.
                This defeats the purpose of lazy trolling, my guy.

                I’d have to put more effort in.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Helly View Post

                  Sure.....and what I'm saying is there is no logically coherent reason for granting those things to ourselves yet denying it to animals. Not while you hold to the idea that slavery, patriarchy, and the Holocaust are all immoral things, anyway.
                  There is plenty of logical coherent reason for granting these things to ourselves and not to animals, what are you talking about. They are of an entirely different species, they are not equals to us. I'm not saying they are inferior just vastly different enough for them to not be considered the same as us humans.

                  Side note: I do find it utterly amusing how you wish us to grants laws, morals, possibly even rights? To animals and to treat them fairly and justly, when infact you were all for white nationalism! The sheer irony of it all! How do you live with that paradox I wonder.


                  Back on topic: Animals are not people. I know, silly thing to say right, but it has to be said with you. You will not let a lion roam the streets and believe you can reason with it to behave and not eat people. The same with any large predatory animal, therefore animals are not people. You may find raccoons cute and cuddly but you dare try to snuggle one it will claw your face off; animals are not people. You might find Zebras as beautiful animal but you dare try to pet one and it will kick and bite you repeatedly; animals are not people.

                  They can't be reasoned with, there's no training you can get that will teach you how to calm down a wild animal of any single species. You can't put them to work a job, get a wage, pay taxes and vote in elections. They contribute nothing to society, our society because they are not people. They can not have the same rights, laws and protections that we have. Sure we can be nice and give them something if we want to but there is no moral obligation to do so. The bible doesn't say so, I doubt any of the other religious books tells you to write laws to make animals more equal to humans. To top it all off... they don't even care. The literally can not understand or comprehend our advance society with its laws, rights, morals, values, etc and don't care to. Animals are not people.

                  Finally and as some more fun facts for you to know. As abhorrent slavery, patriarchy and the Holocaust are, these things also happen in nature. Ants enslave other ants to serve their queen; there's birds who's eggs mimic the eggs of other birds and so they swap eggs so another family can raise their child (slavery). Many animals have patriarchies like Lions, deer, gorillas. There are also matriarchies like bees, ants, whales, elephants, hyenas, etc. Holocausts happen all the time in the animal kingdoms as well, when entire species are wiped out by the efforts of another overly hunting them. We see this happen very rapidly when we have invasive species.


                  In the end you can try to demonize what we eat all you want but it doesn't change the fact that eating meat is normal and natural for us. You want to push for a change that helps animals, great that's awesome. Good for you but until you got some viable, tasty alternatives --- that everyone can get behind. No one is going to change a core element of their lives for a cow or pig they've never seen or met.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                    There is plenty of logical coherent reason for granting these things to ourselves and not to animals, what are you talking about. They are of an entirely different species, they are not equals to us. I'm not saying they are inferior just vastly different enough for them to not be considered the same as us humans.

                    Side note: I do find it utterly amusing how you wish us to grants laws, morals, possibly even rights? To animals and to treat them fairly and justly, when infact you were all for white nationalism! The sheer irony of it all! How do you live with that paradox I wonder.


                    Back on topic: Animals are not people. I know, silly thing to say right, but it has to be said with you. You will not let a lion roam the streets and believe you can reason with it to behave and not eat people. The same with any large predatory animal, therefore animals are not people. You may find raccoons cute and cuddly but you dare try to snuggle one it will claw your face off; animals are not people. You might find Zebras as beautiful animal but you dare try to pet one and it will kick and bite you repeatedly; animals are not people.

                    They can't be reasoned with, there's no training you can get that will teach you how to calm down a wild animal of any single species. You can't put them to work a job, get a wage, pay taxes and vote in elections. They contribute nothing to society, our society because they are not people. They can not have the same rights, laws and protections that we have. Sure we can be nice and give them something if we want to but there is no moral obligation to do so. The bible doesn't say so, I doubt any of the other religious books tells you to write laws to make animals more equal to humans. To top it all off... they don't even care. The literally can not understand or comprehend our advance society with its laws, rights, morals, values, etc and don't care to. Animals are not people.

                    Finally and as some more fun facts for you to know. As abhorrent slavery, patriarchy and the Holocaust are, these things also happen in nature. Ants enslave other ants to serve their queen; there's birds who's eggs mimic the eggs of other birds and so they swap eggs so another family can raise their child (slavery). Many animals have patriarchies like Lions, deer, gorillas. There are also matriarchies like bees, ants, whales, elephants, hyenas, etc. Holocausts happen all the time in the animal kingdoms as well, when entire species are wiped out by the efforts of another overly hunting them. We see this happen very rapidly when we have invasive species.


                    In the end you can try to demonize what we eat all you want but it doesn't change the fact that eating meat is normal and natural for us. You want to push for a change that helps animals, great that's awesome. Good for you but until you got some viable, tasty alternatives --- that everyone can get behind. No one is going to change a core element of their lives for a cow or pig they've never seen or met.
                    "Vastly different" is subjective, not to mention vague and ultimately arbitrary. Hitler would have said the same about his master race in comparison to non-whites.


                    Why do you people always go to lions and alligators or some other craxy shit? You realize beef doesn't come from lions, right?

                    And there absolutely are some holy scripts who grant moral value to some animals, like the Hindus and the whole cow thing. I don't even know why you're bringing that up, it literally adds nothing meaningful to the conversation since I doubt you care at all about what religions say.


                    No one is talking about giving them the right to vote. FYI we also don't grant that to the mentally handicapped, but we also don't kill the mentally handicapped.



                    I don't know why you're making the naturalistic fallacy again. You yourself mentioned several things that happen in nature that aren't morally okay, so you agree that this is a patently stupid appeal to make. I don't understand why you find that information so difficult to retain.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Chibz View Post
                      Wow you really got him RCA. "Meat is tasty. Vegan food doesn't look tasty!". Something being tasty or fun or whatever doesn't address the point of the thread.

                      But let me see what you say to this thought experiment: Consider technology developed to the point that we could make artificial meat that is indistinguishable from actual meat. The only difference between the two is one comes from an animal the other doesn't. Say a restaurant gives you the option "Do you want me to kill and then cook the cow for you or do you want the artificial meat? You will receive your meal at exactly the same time and it will cost you exactly the same amount of money and they are both just as healthy for you regardless of which you choose." do you believe either option is superior to another or are both choices equally as humane?

                      By the way, I'm not vegan. So save any goofy memes like that.
                      I'd kill the animal myself as I've done before, fuck your lab shit

                      Goddamn poindexters
                      Last edited by DokTOR.; December 10th, 2019, 05:27 AM.
                      Originally posted by Kajin_Style ;n513566
                      Why should I even give a damn that some faggot is being stoned to death in another country?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Helly View Post

                        "Vastly different" is subjective, not to mention vague and ultimately arbitrary. Hitler would have said the same about his master race in comparison to non-whites.
                        A fish, a bird, a lizard, a cat, a grasshoper, a spider and so on are all vastly different from us are they not?

                        Cows and pigs are vastly different too are they not? They can't stand up right, don't communicate with each other, their bodies on the surface are very different. I don't see how you can't say they are vastly different. What would you define as "vastly different" if you believe my claim is vague and arbritary?

                        Aliens? Cause that would be extremely different. lol


                        Originally posted by Helly View Post
                        Why do you people always go to lions and alligators or some other craxy shit? You realize beef doesn't come from lions, right?
                        Because those are things found in the wild. To use current day cows and pigs is a disservice to nature. Those animals have been selectively breed by us to be timid and well... juicy to eat. They are a shell of their ancestors.

                        Maybe I should use Buffalo and wild boar as examples instead, hrm.

                        Originally posted by Helly View Post
                        And there absolutely are some holy scripts who grant moral value to some animals, like the Hindus and the whole cow thing. I don't even know why you're bringing that up, it literally adds nothing meaningful to the conversation since I doubt you care at all about what religions say.
                        Oh I forgot about that. My bad.


                        Originally posted by Helly View Post
                        No one is talking about giving them the right to vote. FYI we also don't grant that to the mentally handicapped, but we also don't kill the mentally handicapped.
                        Well this isn't Sparta so...


                        Originally posted by Helly View Post
                        I don't know why you're making the naturalistic fallacy again. You yourself mentioned several things that happen in nature that aren't morally okay, so you agree that this is a patently stupid appeal to make. I don't understand why you find that information so difficult to retain.
                        You are confusing human logical constructs (morals, laws, values) with the functions of the universe and nature. I am not saying that because it happens in nature it is therefore "good." I am saying because it happens in nature it is therefore... normal; big difference there.

                        You are the one who is painting eating meat as Evil and therefore assume any argument against it is people claiming it to be Good.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Helly View Post

                          Because plants don't have a central nervous system. They don't have brains, they have no subjective experience of reality, there is no entity at the center of it all. The onus isn't on me to disprove they have sentience, it's a commonly accepted belief that they don't because there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.


                          Why do you think animal agriculture as it exists today is immoral?
                          Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

                          I'd like to research more about plant sentience, but don't really have the time to, so I'll concede on that point.

                          I think it's immoral because trapping animals, doping them up and slaughtering them wholesale, with no room to roam or thrive, as well as the abuse and torture they go through isn't really a way for any living being to live. Not to mention the commercialization of the meat industry has various other problems such as with climate change and deforestation.

                          Now, I'll still eat meat readily since my like of meat overwhelms my need to truly take a stance. though I do agree, I don't care enough to become vegan. I do try to minimize burgers to once every 2 weeks or so and mostly eat chicken and fish in terms of meat.

                          But once Impossible meat takes off and is less expensive I'll totally switch to it.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                            A fish, a bird, a lizard, a cat, a grasshoper, a spider and so on are all vastly different from us are they not?

                            Cows and pigs are vastly different too are they not? They can't stand up right, don't communicate with each other, their bodies on the surface are very different. I don't see how you can't say they are vastly different. What would you define as "vastly different" if you believe my claim is vague and arbritary?

                            Aliens? Cause that would be extremely different. lol
                            It's vague and arbitrary because it changes depending on the criteria you use. This is why I keep bringing up Hitler and his gripe with non-whites: he would have said that Aryans and non-Aryans were VASTLY different to the point of the latter not even being worthy of moral consideration. All the arbitrary characteristics you've listed (they can't stand upright, can't talk, are different on the surface) are all things he would have used to justify the slaughter of mentally and physically handicapped people as well as people with different skin colors. How do you not see that when you are giving me those exact characteristics word for word? This is absolutely MIND-BOGGLING to me. When did you become such a staunch proponent of ableism and racial supremacy, Kajin??????? Do you really not see how utterly horrible and apathetic the things are that you've typed out here??


                            Because those are things found in the wild. To use current day cows and pigs is a disservice to nature. Those animals have been selectively breed by us to be timid and well... juicy to eat. They are a shell of their ancestors.

                            Maybe I should use Buffalo and wild boar as examples instead, hrm.
                            They're not timid. A pig or cow that doesn't know you will fuck you up.

                            You are confusing human logical constructs (morals, laws, values) with the functions of the universe and nature. I am not saying that because it happens in nature it is therefore "good." I am saying because it happens in nature it is therefore... normal; big difference there.

                            You are the one who is painting eating meat as Evil and therefore assume any argument against it is people claiming it to be Good.
                            Yea, it's normal just like rape and infanticide are normal. This is a meaningless response, all I'm pointing out is something happening in nature doesn't tell us if it's morally good.


                            Originally posted by Zemoco View Post

                            Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

                            I'd like to research more about plant sentience, but don't really have the time to, so I'll concede on that point.

                            I think it's immoral because trapping animals, doping them up and slaughtering them wholesale, with no room to roam or thrive, as well as the abuse and torture they go through isn't really a way for any living being to live. Not to mention the commercialization of the meat industry has various other problems such as with climate change and deforestation.

                            Now, I'll still eat meat readily since my like of meat overwhelms my need to truly take a stance. though I do agree, I don't care enough to become vegan. I do try to minimize burgers to once every 2 weeks or so and mostly eat chicken and fish in terms of meat.

                            But once Impossible meat takes off and is less expensive I'll totally switch to it.
                            Well, as long as you're open to change, I guess that's not too bad...I would just say maybe try cutting out unnecessary snacks or junk foods altogether that use animal products as well, since that was the first step I took.

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