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    Light, Heat, and the Red Giant Sun

    Originally posted by Wade View Post

    No, I'll give you an example, although I can't say I can justify how ti is possible, other than a truly divine inspiration.

    In the Book of Revelation, John claims the Sun will burn seven times hotter during the Millennial Reign. This number seven can be the literal number 7, or it can be an indefinite number greater than seven. This is an accurate description of the Red Giant phase of the Sun.

    However, I can't say that I understand how a prophecy that perfect could be in a book that I believe is inspired by a false religion, other than to say that God must have used even a false prophet to tell the truth.
    This is how stupid you are.

    When the sun becomes a red gaint is gets cooler! Not hotter! --> https://socratic.org/questions/how-h...are-to-our-sun

    You can google the separate articles/wikipages yourself and you'll see the same answers, that link just condenses it for you.


    Yet you yourself believe this to be accurate when you could've fucking googled to be sure. How more pathetic of a prophet can you be if you can't even google shit to verify what is true and isn't true.


    Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
    I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

    #2
    Originally posted by Kajin_Style

    This is how stupid you are.

    When the sun becomes a red gaint is gets cooler! Not hotter! --> https://socratic.org/questions/how-h...are-to-our-sun

    You can google the separate articles/wikipages yourself and you'll see the same answers, that link just condenses it for you.


    Yet you yourself believe this to be accurate when you could've fucking googled to be sure. How more pathetic of a prophet can you be if you can't even google shit to verify what is true and isn't true.
    No, it gets hotter. "Cooling" of the sun is a misnomer. The surface temperature is cooler, because the energy is spreading out over a wider area, but the Luminosity of the Red Giant phase is around 1000 times brighter at max luminosity, which would actually disintegrate the Earth.

    You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

    Now you need to know that the Core of the Sun during the Red Giant phase is around 1000 times hotter than present temperature at maximum, but that doesn't mean it can't cross the 7 times hotter threshold before then, which midpoint theorem says it has got to cross that mark at some point.

    You can't learn everything on Google, clown.

    Helium is actually less energy dense than Hydrogen, so Helium itself is not the culprit that makes the Red Giant phase hundreds of times HOTTER than the Sun. The culprit is the insane density of stellar carbon, which the Helium produces, which makes the gravitational gradient in the core of a star get steeper and steeper. The more carbon it produces, the more the star compresses, fusing Helium faster and faster, until it explodes into a Planetary Nebula, with a White Dwarf remnant. At least that's how the theory actually works.

    When they say "Cooler" they are talking about the surface temperature, not the temperature you would feel on the Earth, nor the temperature of the core of the Sun.

    The "temperature" you "feel" from the Sun is the Luminosity.

    The expansion of the Red Giant is caused by the Radiation Pressure of the much hotter core, where Helium atoms are being fused hundreds of times faster than Hydrogen atoms are presently being fused.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Wade

      No, it gets hotter. "Cooling" of the sun is a misnomer. The surface temperature is cooler, because the energy is spreading out over a wider area, but the Luminosity of the Red Giant phase is around 1000 times brighter at max luminosity, which would actually disintegrate the Earth.

      You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

      Now you need to know that the Core of the Sun during the Red Giant phase is around 1000 times hotter than present temperature at maximum, but that doesn't mean it can't cross the 7 times hotter threshold before then, which midpoint theorem says it has got to cross that mark at some point.

      You can't learn everything on Google, clown.

      Helium is actually less energy dense than Hydrogen, so Helium itself is not the culprit that makes the Red Giant phase hundreds of times HOTTER than the Sun. The culprit is the insane density of stellar carbon, which the Helium produces, which makes the gravitational gradient in the core of a star get steeper and steeper. The more carbon it produces, the more the star compresses, fusing Helium faster and faster, until it explodes into a Planetary Nebula, with a White Dwarf remnant. At least that's how the theory actually works.

      When they say "Cooler" they are talking about the surface temperature, not the temperature you would feel on the Earth, nor the temperature of the core of the Sun.

      The "temperature" you "feel" from the Sun is the Luminosity.

      The expansion of the Red Giant is caused by the Radiation Pressure of the much hotter core, where Helium atoms are being fused hundreds of times faster than Hydrogen atoms are presently being fused.
      "tôi kratistôi"

      Comment


        #4
        Wade did own Kajin_Style but you're still wrong Wade. The Sun will turn mountains into lava not.just burn 7 times hotter. And if the number 7 can be higher then it should have been specified, it wasn't so it is 7. And this will happen millions of not billions of years in the future. By that time humanity would have gone extinct or will be god themselves.
        "tôi kratistôi"

        Comment


          #5
          Yeah but whose to say the sun is even hot at all? Nobody has ever touched it so it's all just hearsay.
          Originally posted by Kajin_Style
          Quiet cathartic really.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Wade

            No, it gets hotter. "Cooling" of the sun is a misnomer. The surface temperature is cooler, because the energy is spreading out over a wider area, but the Luminosity of the Red Giant phase is around 1000 times brighter at max luminosity, which would actually disintegrate the Earth.
            lmao... brighter light = hotter temperatures? Really? Despite the actual science saying the surface is cooler. Only reason it is brighter is because a red giant is many times larger. It is basically a bigger flash light. Red light isn't hotter than any other light.

            FYI, Max luminosity for a Red Gaint is at 3,000 times the sun not 1,000 so again spouting off shit you could've googled. Furthermore the surface area of the sun directly affects its luminosity and with a Red Gaint having hundreds of times the radius of the sun its surface area would be massive.

            FYI-2, The only reason the Earth would even get disintegrated is because the sun would expand enough in size to reach earth and possibly consume it. Not because the light is fucking brighter.

            Originally posted by Wade

            When they say "Cooler" they are talking about the surface temperature, not the temperature you would feel on the Earth, nor the temperature of the core of the Sun.

            The "temperature" you "feel" from the Sun is the Luminosity.
            By that logic, every time night time happens we should all be freezing in -400F degrees because ya know sunlight isn't hitting us in the dark. Unless you are saying the Moon can reflect not just the light of the sun but the heat too!

            Bro, you are basically saying "light = heat"

            lmao... I just can't with this nonsense anymore.





            Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
            I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by #83.6666666667
              Wade did own Kajin_Style but you're still wrong Wade. The Sun will turn mountains into lava not.just burn 7 times hotter. And if the number 7 can be higher then it should have been specified, it wasn't so it is 7. and this will happen millions of not billions of years in the future. By that time humanity would have gone extinct or will be god themselves.
              Let's hear Wade justify this part before we continue this scienc-y dick measuring contest. Unless Cid wants to pull his out.
              Originally posted by Wade
              It isn't date rape if God commands it, and he already commanded it.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by OrganizationXV
                Let's hear Wade justify this part before we continue this scienc-y dick measuring contest. Unless Cid wants to pull his out.
                Let me briefly explain the process here.

                Stars have a delicate balance between their gravitational fields and the energy generated in the core. If the energy generated in the core becomes too powerful, the star's gravity is overcome and it explodes. But if the energy is too weak, it collapses on itself and becomes a singularity.

                When the sun's core depletes its supply of hydrogen atoms, the star will begin to collapse in on itself because there won't be any energy to hold the weight of the outer layers up. As this happens, the core gains mass as material falls into it. And that slowly increases the temperature at the core. That doesn't quite happen fast enough to begin helium fusion steadily, though. At some point the increasing mass at the core triggers a weird quantum state called degeneracy. That actually causes the diameter of the core to shrink as it increases in mass. When that happens, the temperature at the core increases dramatically over an incredibly short period of time.

                When that happens, it creates a flash fusion of helium in the surrounding layers around the core. Essentially, the star explodes. That explosion blasts off the outer layers of the star, causing it to expand significantly. (The force of the explosion also shocks the core back into a normal state, which allows it to expand and cool off again, which means eventually it'll stop fusing helium again and the process will repeat several times)

                When the star expands, it's still creating a similar amount of energy. However that energy is spread out over a much larger surface area. So it's true that the surface temperature of the star decreases by several thousand degrees. However, because of its much larger size that also means it radiates away a much larger amount of heat over a much broader area. This means that any planets that aren't engulfed in the star's outer layers will heat up significantly.

                Here on Earth, it means that the oceans will boil away, mountains will becomes pools of molten rock, and life on this planet will come to a horrible end.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Cid

                  Let me briefly explain the process here.

                  Stars have a delicate balance between their gravitational fields and the energy generated in the core. If the energy generated in the core becomes too powerful, the star's gravity is overcome and it explodes. But if the energy is too weak, it collapses on itself and becomes a singularity.

                  When the sun's core depletes its supply of hydrogen atoms, the star will begin to collapse in on itself because there won't be any energy to hold the weight of the outer layers up. As this happens, the core gains mass as material falls into it. And that slowly increases the temperature at the core. That doesn't quite happen fast enough to begin helium fusion steadily, though. At some point the increasing mass at the core triggers a weird quantum state called degeneracy. That actually causes the diameter of the core to shrink as it increases in mass. When that happens, the temperature at the core increases dramatically over an incredibly short period of time.

                  When that happens, it creates a flash fusion of helium in the surrounding layers around the core. Essentially, the star explodes. That explosion blasts off the outer layers of the star, causing it to expand significantly. (The force of the explosion also shocks the core back into a normal state, which allows it to expand and cool off again, which means eventually it'll stop fusing helium again and the process will repeat several times)

                  When the star expands, it's still creating a similar amount of energy. However that energy is spread out over a much larger surface area. So it's true that the surface temperature of the star decreases by several thousand degrees. However, because of its much larger size that also means it radiates away a much larger amount of heat over a much broader area. This means that any planets that aren't engulfed in the star's outer layers will heat up significantly.

                  Here on Earth, it means that the oceans will boil away, mountains will becomes pools of molten rock, and life on this planet will come to a horrible end.
                  Guess I'll have to crank up the air conditioner, eh?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Kajin_Style

                    lmao... brighter light = hotter temperatures? Really? Despite the actual science saying the surface is cooler. Only reason it is brighter is because a red giant is many times larger. It is basically a bigger flash light. Red light isn't hotter than any other light.

                    FYI, Max luminosity for a Red Gaint is at 3,000 times the sun not 1,000 so again spouting off shit you could've googled. Furthermore the surface area of the sun directly affects its luminosity and with a Red Gaint having hundreds of times the radius of the sun its surface area would be massive.

                    FYI-2, The only reason the Earth would even get disintegrated is because the sun would expand enough in size to reach earth and possibly consume it. Not because the light is fucking brighter.



                    By that logic, every time night time happens we should all be freezing in -400F degrees because ya know sunlight isn't hitting us in the dark. Unless you are saying the Moon can reflect not just the light of the sun but the heat too!

                    Bro, you are basically saying "light = heat"

                    lmao... I just can't with this nonsense anymore.



                    Light is heat. Wade is wrong but what you said is just factually incorrect.
                    "tôi kratistôi"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by #83.6666666667
                      Light is heat. Wade is wrong but what you said is just factually incorrect.
                      Truth. All wavelengths of light carry thermal radiation and thus transfer heat. The light of the sun is the reason things heat up on planets.

                      We actually observe this principal beautifully on Mercury, where, due to its close proximity to the sun, is the second hottest planet in the solar system with an average surface temperature of around 800 degrees F on the day side of the planet but temperatures as low as -280 F on the night side.

                      Kajin_Style the reason that night on Earth isn't dramatically colder is because we have an atmosphere with greenhouse gasses that trap heat instead of allowing it all to radiate away during the night.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Cid

                        Truth. All wavelengths of light carry thermal radiation and thus transfer heat. The light of the sun is the reason things heat up on planets.

                        We actually observe this principal beautifully on Mercury, where, due to its close proximity to the sun, is the second hottest planet in the solar system with an average surface temperature of around 800 degrees F on the day side of the planet but temperatures as low as -280 F on the night side.

                        Kajin_Style the reason that night on Earth isn't dramatically colder is because we have an atmosphere with greenhouse gasses that trap heat instead of allowing it all to radiate away during the night.
                        Disagree with that one highlighted line.

                        Light is electromagnetic radiation, while thermal radiation is a form of electromagnetic radiation. Heat energy itself is just atoms moving rapidly. This heat can be transfer from object to object. It however does not mean that light is transferring from object to object.

                        Boiling water does not emit light. A warm car engine does not emit light, Your water heater does not emit light.

                        Meanwhile we have things that emit light that don't emit heat like LEDs, that was a big selling point of theirs. Fireflies emit light but don't emit heat. Glowsticks emit light but don't emit heat. There are many things that emit light but don't emit heat. Sure something like a flashlight might be hot if you touch the bulb but the light itself isn't going to raise the temperature of anything with in the range of the light.

                        Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                        I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Kajin_Style
                          Bro, you are basically saying "light = heat"

                          lmao... I just can't with this nonsense anymore.
                          galaxy brain post

                          Comment


                            #14
                            On the topic of light to put you naysayers to rest:

                            -------------------------------
                            Light is electromagnetic radiation within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light

                            Thermal radiation is electromagnetic radiation generated by the thermal motion of charged particles in matter. All matter with a temperature greater than absolute zero emits thermal radiation.
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation

                            In thermodynamics, heat refers to energy that is transferred from a warmer substance or object to a cooler one.
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat

                            -------------------------------

                            We can all agree, that there are things that emit heat without light, correct? So this raises the question... can the inverse be true? Yes it is.

                            1) LEDs are one of the things that does this phenomenon and they use a process called Electroluminescence ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroluminescence) to do this.


                            2) Glowing the dark paint also does this through a process called: Luminsence and I quote:

                            Luminescence is emission of light by a substance not resulting from heat; it is thus a form of cold-body radiation
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminescence


                            3) Finally there is also light being produced when two sub particles collide. They also produce no heat and that process is called: Annihilation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilation It is believed this doesn't produce any heat either.

                            -------------------------------

                            Now suck it, naysayers.

                            Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                            I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Kajin_Style

                              Disagree with that one highlighted line.

                              Light is electromagnetic radiation, while thermal radiation is a form of electromagnetic radiation. Heat energy itself is just atoms moving rapidly. This heat can be transfer from object to object. It however does not mean that light is transferring from object to object.

                              Boiling water does not emit light. A warm car engine does not emit light, Your water heater does not emit light.

                              Meanwhile we have things that emit light that don't emit heat like LEDs, that was a big selling point of theirs. Fireflies emit light but don't emit heat. Glowsticks emit light but don't emit heat. There are many things that emit light but don't emit heat. Sure something like a flashlight might be hot if you touch the bulb but the light itself isn't going to raise the temperature of anything with in the range of the light.
                              I think you're trying to get technical, but you're still wrong.

                              I say that light transfers thermal radiation, but that's a pretty dumbed down response. Light is energy and it transfers that energy to any surface it touches.

                              low power LEDs, glowsticks, fireflies, and anything else that produces light indeed produce heat. But the things you mentioned transmit light at lower energies and frequencies and thus they don't heat up the surfaces they touch (i.e air molecules) enough to be felt in most cases. There are high power LEDs that produce a ton of heat, though. For example, look at Wicked Laser's laser pointers, which have LEDs so powerful they can pop balloons with the heat. Some of the most power LED flashlights on the market also come with warning labels to not shine them at people at close range because of the possibility of burns.

                              But no, not all heat produces light. But all light does produce heat, however small an amount that might be.

                              -edit-

                              And just to be clear, even if this wasn't all true, you're still incredibly incorrect about the sun itself, which absolutely does transfer its energy through the light it radiates.

                              Comment


                              • Cid
                                Cid commented
                                Editing a comment
                                https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...oes-light-tr/#

                                Here's a pretty well written and simple explanation that details how light transfers energy and causes an object to heat up. It's talking about light from the sun, specifically, but it applies to all light in general.

                              #16
                              The secondhand cringe from Kajin's last few posts makes me want to kms rather acutely, but the good news is that it seems as though I'll have Uncle Volodya's insistent assistance in doing so.

                              Comment


                                #17
                                Originally posted by Kajin_Style
                                Now suck it, naysayers.
                                Get a load of this jerkdick believing in light and heat and shit.
                                Originally posted by Kajin_Style
                                Quiet cathartic really.

                                Comment


                                  #18
                                  Originally posted by #83.6666666667
                                  Wade did own Kajin_Style but you're still wrong Wade. The Sun will turn mountains into lava not.just burn 7 times hotter. And if the number 7 can be higher then it should have been specified, it wasn't so it is 7. And this will happen millions of not billions of years in the future. By that time humanity would have gone extinct or will be god themselves.
                                  I'm not going to respond to every post anybody has made.

                                  The Jews used the number "seven" the same way we use the word for the number "Million". It can be used for the literal number 7, or an unspecified number greater than seven. This is unfortunately a fact, which effects Bible. reading.

                                  If the Sun becomes 7 literal times hotter (more luminous,) and it will, then the prophecy has come to pass.

                                  It is not known exactly what the composition of the Sun is, and it is also not known exactly when the Red Giant phase will start. It is believed that only stars 90% of the Suns mass or greater can become Red Giants. I've seen estimates ranging from a half billion years to 2 billion years for when the Reg Giant phase starts.


                                  Humans will never be God. You cannot "evolve" into the eternal Logos.


                                  ===

                                  If you are trying to find Syria in the Book of Daniel, they were occupied by the Greeks at the time period Daniel was writing about, so it technically says Greece will be divided into 4, but Greece includes Syria, and Syria gets divided into 4 nations itself, which gets complicated, but you can see in the portion about the "King of the North" and the "King of the South" that part of the prophecy is intended to only be useful after the fact, but part of it is intended to be understood before hand.

                                  Comment


                                    #19
                                    Wade- and this'll happen to the sun millions or billions of years after Syria splits into 4. Syria splitting into 4 has no bearing whatsoever on the sun exploding. What's your point, why does this prophecy matter?
                                    Originally posted by Wade
                                    It isn't date rape if God commands it, and he already commanded it.

                                    Comment


                                      #20
                                      Originally posted by Cid

                                      I think you're trying to get technical, but you're still wrong.
                                      The entire side topic is technical.


                                      Originally posted by Cid
                                      I say that light transfers thermal radiation, but that's a pretty dumbed down response. Light is energy and it transfers that energy to any surface it touches.
                                      Everything emits thermal radiation even rocks, that's a given. Yes, Light is energy but no it doesn't transfer that energy to whatever touches. Light may be absorb and when this happens it generates heat. The light isn't the heat. There are other substances that can reflect light and not generate heat.

                                      The bottom line is: light =/= heat.

                                      https://www.quora.com/Is-light-a-type-of-heat


                                      Originally posted by Cid
                                      low power LEDs, glowsticks, fireflies, and anything else that produces light indeed produce heat. But the things you mentioned transmit light at lower energies and frequencies and thus they don't heat up the surfaces they touch (i.e air molecules) enough to be felt in most cases. There are high power LEDs that produce a ton of heat, though. For example, look at Wicked Laser's laser pointers, which have LEDs so powerful they can pop balloons with the heat. Some of the most power LED flashlights on the market also come with warning labels to not shine them at people at close range because of the possibility of burns.
                                      No, they do not. luminescence the second option I pointed above is called considered a form of cold body radiation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminescence

                                      However I see your confusion when it comes to lasers that can cut. It is assumed they generate heat but no, the photons in the light are exciting the atoms they hit. The light is absorbed first then the substance emits heat because of the energy it absorb from the light. The light itself is not heat. Again imagine a radiator or stove when they emit heat but no light. You can fire one of those super heated lasers at something and keep your hand close to the beam and feel no heat.

                                      However the metal pieces that are being charged up to emit the light do get hot and that is because they got a current running through them. It is not because the light they are emitting is heating them up.


                                      Originally posted by Cid

                                      And just to be clear, even if this wasn't all true, you're still incredibly incorrect about the sun itself, which absolutely does transfer its energy through the light it radiates.
                                      The sun generates heat & light. They never say just heat or light. It is both. The two are distinctly different. Though yes light is a form of energy but light isn't a heat source, it is just that, energy nothing more.

                                      Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                                      I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                                      Comment


                                      • Cid
                                        Cid commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        I don't think I can explain this any simpler. lol.

                                        No, heat and light are not the same. But all light generates heat, even if it isn't measurable outside of a laboratory.
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