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    If it's possible God exists, then God actually exists.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBmAKCvWl74

    So if reality started with Chaos, we have:

    -Chaos means anything can happen.
    -If anything can happen then an Almighty God can exist.
    -If a Maximal Being can exist then a Maximal Being actually exists.
    -Chaos again means a Maximal Being can exist.
    -Therefore a Maximal Being exists.
    -An Almighty God is a Maximal Being.
    -Therefore Almighty God exists.
    -An Almighty God can turn Chaos into Order.

    An Almighty God turning Chaos into Order then prohibits the Chaos over-riding the Almighty God....so then there can't be a God who can lie, for example.
    Last edited by Wade; May 5th, 2018, 09:19 AM.

    #2
    Hey Wade, I was curious. What're your thoughts on the big bang theory and the concept of evolution?

    Also, you're wrong on point 3, and maybe on the point about chaos. Also, just because an almighty power exists, doesn't mean yours does.

    Also, if we're following that logic then chaos can and will spawn infinite all-powerful beings because they all have the possibility of existing. But if there's more than one omnipotent being, none of them are truly omnipotent. If that's the case, none of them are maximally powerful and none of them could come into being in the first place.
    Last edited by OrganizationXV; May 5th, 2018, 09:31 AM.
    Originally posted by Wade
    It isn't date rape if God commands it, and he already commanded it.

    Originally posted by Wade
    I'm saying we actually don't know for certain that 1kg is 1kg.

    Comment


      #3
      I'm going to disagree with the presentation's claim that a Maximally Great Being is required to create the universe "fair". It's pretty clear that life is not fair. If life were fair, everyone would be born in the same conditions and surroundings, with equally wealth/healthy parents in equal housing and equal schooling and employment opportunities, but this is clearly not the case. If life were fair, everyone would have an equally pleasing mate, but this is also not the case. Some men are married to a fatty, while some men are married to a hottie.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
        Hey Wade, I was curious. What're your thoughts on the big bang theory and the concept of evolution?

        Also, you're wrong on point 3.
        I'll do evolution first:

        -I was shown in a dream from God that humans, and mammals in general, evolved from a four-legged reptillian land animal, similar to an alligator. That God actually created some beings directly and some beings indirectly, but he Guided evolution along.

        Scientists think land animals evolved from Tiktalik, but Tiktalik does not have advanced foot bones. The organisms I saw in the divine dream had advanced feet and could run over rugged terrain.

        The Creation of life from dirt is nevertheless true, although not accurately recorded in the Genesis creation story.

        I believe the Earth is 4.56 Billion years old or older. I have some circumstantial reasons for thinking the Earth may be 6 Billion years old or older.


        Now let's do the Big Bang.

        The Big Bang is sort of recorded in the Bible on the First Day of Creation, when God says, "Let there be Light" and he has not yet divided the Light from the Darkness. Then Symmetry Breaking also happens on the First Day, when God divides the Light from the Darkness.

        I have also had a divine vision of God speaking to me from beyond the Big Bang, in which I saw the Big Bang as an enormous fireball of expanding mass-energy and space-time, and God was speaking to me from beyond the giant ball of fire. He erased the words from my mind, because the words are sealed up to the end of time, but I know that it was God because only God could be that powerful.

        The Big Bang is real, but it is in fact caused by God, who is "From Everlasting to Everlasting".

        From Everlasting to Everlasting is derivable, because the Logos is Transcendent, which means the Logos is From Everlasting to Everlasting (it describes and governs all possible realities).


        If I'm given a choice between scripture which seems to disobey evidence and reason, or said evidence and reason, I believe I should obey evidence and reason.

        The problem with scripture is scripture is subject to the same flaws as our own minds are subject to. Even if God did order the writer to write a book, we cannot assume that the Book is flawless, because the writer is a human and is not possible to be sure that He obeyed God to the letter in writing the Book.
        Last edited by Wade; May 5th, 2018, 09:47 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post
          Hey Wade, I was curious. What're your thoughts on the big bang theory and the concept of evolution?

          Also, you're wrong on point 3, and maybe on the point about chaos. Also, just because an almighty power exists, doesn't mean yours does.

          Also, if we're following that logic then chaos can and will spawn infinite all-powerful beings because they all have the possibility of existing. But if there's more than one omnipotent being, none of them are truly omnipotent. If that's the case, none of them are maximally powerful and none of them could come into being in the first place.
          The first Maximal Being which exists changes Chaos into Order before the Chaos can create any other maximal Beings. Therefore all other beings are subject to the One Maximal Being. Yet, I'm going to blow your mind, because a Maximal Being can exist in the form of an infinite number of Lesser beings, each an avatar of himself. So Polytheism does not contradict Monotheism, as long as all possible gods (lower g) obey the One and direct worship to the One. See, "Angels" in the Abrahamic religions have all the properties of "Lesser deities" from other religions, t hey just aren't called Gods, but there is some left-over terminology in the Book of Exodus, where Moses refers to the True Creator as "THE GOD OF GODS". So in short, the Polytheism which actually exists does not contradict Monotheism, because if any other gods do exist, they too worship the One God.

          You may as well obey the first commandment anyway, just in case. You may as well treat other possible "gods" as angels, and just worship the True Creator instead. Therefore "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," still holds true.
          Last edited by Wade; May 5th, 2018, 10:10 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            The property of "Transcendence" already takes care of the Maximally Great Being existing in all Possible worlds. The Logos exists in all possible worlds, and indeed it transcends all possible worlds. So I have proven that a Being, the Logos, does in fact exist in all possible worlds (M-theory), and this supports Creation, because this Logos also has the properties of a Mind. In fact, anything that is truly Transcendent automatically has the properties of a mind, at the least because it transcends our minds.

            So the Property of Transcendence covers "All Possible Worlds" by its very nature.

            It's pretty easy to see from M-theory that the Logos is Transcendent, so the Logos is in fact a "Maximal Being".

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Wade View Post

              The first Maximal Being which exists changes Chaos into Order before the Chaos can create any other maximal Beings. Therefore all other beings are subject to the One Maximal Being. Yet, I'm going to blow your mind, because a Maximal Being can exist in the form of an infinite number of Lesser beings, each an avatar of himself. So Polytheism does not contradict Monotheism, as long as all possible gods (lower g) obey the One and direct worship to the One. See, "Angels" in the Abrahamic religions have all the properties of "Lesser deities" from other religions, t hey just aren't called Gods, but there is some left-over terminology in the Book of Exodus, where Moses refers to the True Creator as "THE GOD OF GODS". So in short, the Polytheism which actually exists does not contradict Monotheism, because if any other gods do exist, they too worship the One God.

              You may as well obey the first commandment anyway, just in case. You may as well treat other possible "gods" as angels, and just worship the True Creator instead. Therefore "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," still holds true.
              They would all come into being by the part where, if there's a chance to exist, they exist. That means they're all exist spontaneously at the first instant They possibly could. There can be no 'greatest' among omnipotents, not would there be 'firsts'. They'd all be there at once.

              Just to jump in again on the 'scripture is fallible' thing... Of you don't believe it's infallible and only use parts you can verify otherwise, what's the point of following scripture at all?

              I'm actually writing a story about a God that splits himself into lesser gods, so I'm familiar with that concept. Fun times.
              Originally posted by Wade
              It isn't date rape if God commands it, and he already commanded it.

              Originally posted by Wade
              I'm saying we actually don't know for certain that 1kg is 1kg.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                They would all come into being by the part where, if there's a chance to exist, they exist. That means they're all exist spontaneously at the first instant They possibly could. There can be no 'greatest' among omnipotents, not would there be 'firsts'. They'd all be there at once.

                Just to jump in again on the 'scripture is fallible' thing... Of you don't believe it's infallible and only use parts you can verify otherwise, what's the point of following scripture at all?

                I'm actually writing a story about a God that splits himself into lesser gods, so I'm familiar with that concept. Fun times.
                Theoretically, if you had scripture that was true, it would help the next generation reach true conclusions. However, I ran into that problem in my own thought life, and I said to God, "Well God, if you can talk to all of these people, then you can talk to me directly, so I would rather you talk to me directly rather than me rely on trusting these people's point of view."

                Again, in theory if scripture were inspired and infallible, it would help the next generation reason about God, but there are parts of the Bible which definitely are not inspired and infallible. In fact, in Corinthians Paul even denies being inspired, and specifically states that he was giving his own opinion. So there are literally books in the Bible in which the author denies infallibility and inspiration.

                In which case it makes sense to ask God to speak to you directly, rather than trusting someone else as a middle man.

                In other words, the Protestant doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" is definitely wrong.
                Last edited by Wade; May 5th, 2018, 10:45 AM.

                Comment


                • OrganizationXV
                  OrganizationXV commented
                  Editing a comment
                  So again I say, doesn't the Bible mean nothing from that perspective? You should stop using it to prove things that later it'll contradict

                #9
                Anyway, the property of Transcendence already covers a LOT of Properties of God, and I can clearly prove that at least one Entity is in fact Transcendent, and that Entity is the Logos. So the Logos is the Maximal Being, because it governs all other beings, and it transcends all other beings. This is what Degrasse Tyson misses. That guy is so close to God, yet unbelieving, that he doesn't even realize it. His clothes are smoking with how much evidence of God is right before his eyes, and he still doesn't believe.

                Comment


                  #10
                  If there were multiple equal Gods, then the universe would be in a condition of maximal chaos, unless the Gods always agreed with one another.

                  The Universe is not in a condition of maximum chaos, because there is life and order in the universe, therefore either:

                  1) One God and only one God exists.

                  or

                  2) If there is more than one God they must agree with one another in every respect anyway.

                  Therefore you should worship a God.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    That is one lazy, Almighty God then.

                    Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                    I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post
                      That is one lazy, Almighty God then.
                      In what way are you claiming God is lazy? He created around 6 Septillion stars and planetary systems. That seems like extra hard work compared to what was required of God, because what is required of God is actually nothing. If God were lazy he wouldn't create anything. six Septillion is a lot more than nothing.

                      God can still be "maximally Good" even though he is not "all-good". God created both good and evil, and the best a God of maximal goodness can do is give you forgiveness just because you asked.

                      I must conclude that a God of both good and evil is somehow "better" than a God of goodness only could be, and this makes sense, because the concept of Forgiveness exists.

                      So a God of forgiveness is more good than a God of pure goodness could be without there being any evil.

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by Wade View Post
                        If there were multiple equal Gods, then the universe would be in a condition of maximal chaos, unless the Gods always agreed with one another.

                        The Universe is not in a condition of maximum chaos, because there is life and order in the universe, therefore either:

                        1) One God and only one God exists.

                        or

                        2) If there is more than one God they must agree with one another in every respect anyway.

                        Therefore you should worship a God.
                        Or 3) there are no Gods, because there was no possibility of a God creating itself. This is the most likely conclusion of you try and look critically at any points in your If/then statements. (For example: how do we know that chaos presents literally any opportunity for something to create itself?)
                        Originally posted by Wade
                        It isn't date rape if God commands it, and he already commanded it.

                        Originally posted by Wade
                        I'm saying we actually don't know for certain that 1kg is 1kg.

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Since Logos can describe Chaos, it is more correct to say that God created Chaos and not the other way around. However, even if you start with a Chaos argument, you still arrive at the existence of an Almighty God of Order.

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by OrganizationXV View Post

                            Or 3) there are no Gods, because there was no possibility of a God creating itself. This is the most likely conclusion of you try and look critically at any points in your If/then statements. (For example: how do we know that chaos presents literally any opportunity for something to create itself?)
                            If a condition of Chaos existed, then it would produce all possible entities until something changed the condition of chaos to no longer be the condition of chaos.

                            True Chaos probably never existed, but if True Chaos did exist the Chaos itself has the properties of a God: It can create, it can destroy.

                            But the Logos transcends and describes the Chaos, therefore the preferred starting point of the argument is with Logos, because the Logos can create Chaos...if it wants to do so.

                            Comment


                              #16
                              A kilogram of steel and a kilogram of feathers do not experience equal gravitational attraction to the Earth, because they are distributed differently. This means you cannot actually take the mass of steel and feathers and compare them on a balance, because the feathers are oriented differently.

                              Therefore a Kilogram of steel does not have the same weight as a kilogram of feathers. You would need a very precise scale to tell the difference, but there is a difference in how much weight they feel, and if you stack or arrange the feathers differently, their "weight" will appear to change, according to the scale, because their average distance to the Earth changes very slightly.

                              Comment


                                #17
                                Distance from earth does not effect the gravitational pull on objects unless they are like KMs away or something, seriously you americans are supposed to learn this in like the 4th grade.

                                a kilogram of steel and kilogram of feathers would “technically” weigh the same, however, the feathers would both be equal in mass and take up more space due to there being much more of the feathers.

                                Comment


                                  #18
                                  Originally posted by Sza View Post
                                  Distance from earth does not effect the gravitational pull on objects unless they are like KMs away or something, seriously you americans are supposed to learn this in like the 4th grade.

                                  a kilogram of steel and kilogram of feathers would “technically” weigh the same, however, the feathers would both be equal in mass and take up more space due to there being much more of the feathers.
                                  Distance to the Earth does change weight, even a tiny distance. You can prove this with Atomic clocks. An atomic clock set on the floor does not experience the same passage of time as an atomic clock a few feet higher from the floor.

                                  A pile of feathers does not have the same weight as a bunch of feathers laid out flat. Sorry, it just works that way.

                                  A Kilogram of steel in a fat cylindrical shape does not have the same weight as a kilogram of steel in a long rod shape. It just works that way.

                                  Comment


                                    #19
                                    I can seal the original post by saying the universe did not actually start from a condition of Chaos. Since the Logos transcends Chaos, then we can know that reality started from a position of Logos. However, ti is nice to know that a condition of Chaos leads to the existence of a God anyway.

                                    The Transcendence of Logos Trumps the Chaos; The God of Order is greater than the God of Chaos, because the God of Order can still correctly describe Chaos.

                                    We actually live in a universe with very little chaos. Most of the local group of galaxies are in perfect harmony and stable over tens of billions of years. So the True Creator did not favor Chaos, but even if Chaos did exist, God would exist. The True Creator is a God of Logos, but Chaos points to the existence of a God anyway. That's the point of this thread.
                                    Last edited by Wade; May 5th, 2018, 12:53 PM.

                                    Comment


                                      #20
                                      A maximally good God can create evil, because a maximally good God wants to express forgiveness.
                                      A maximally good God can create a certain brand of Chaos, because he wants to express Free Will, but this Chaos is still subject to Logos.

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