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    Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post

    That's not even bad. Leaders have fill-ins when they have to go. Trump left for a moment so Ivanka ad to take his place. Not a big deal.
    This is our first ever engagement, so I'll be nice just this once...

    Trump employing a fill-in wasn't a faux pas--albeit a blatantly pre-meditated one--in and of itself; who he chose was, however. It was a slap in the faces of the other state heads because, daughter or not, he placed some random executive from his administration (who only got the position due to flagrant nepotism in the first place, mind you) in his seat as if to say, "She is comparable to you lot."

    Do you get how insulting that is? Even ignoring the fact that the US' allies such as Merkel, May, and Trudeau made up the majority of the seats, there were also hostile and neutral powerhouses such as Putin, Jinping, and Modi present. Powerhouses who we should be trying to improve relations with, instead of further alienating them and even our allies. :|
    Last edited by Oneiros; July 8th, 2017, 11:23 PM. Reason: Brushed up my wording, soz.

    Comment



      Originally posted by Cid View Post

      It is a bit of a big deal because Ivanka doesn't hold a high office within the administration. If anyone were to sit in, it should have been Kushner, since he's the special advisor or Tillerson as the Secretary of State.
      High office in the administration means very little now. You literally don't have to be qualified nor do you have to be a decent human being. The reality of this situation is that no-one takes the US seriously anymore nor do they respect it. The only thing keeping the US as relevant is its economic and military power. You can have a 5 year old little girl with down syndrome replace DTrump and she would hold as much respect and weight as Trump.
      Originally posted by Dream View Post
      This is our first ever engagement, so I'll be nice just this once...

      Trump employing a fill-in wasn't a faux pas--albeit a blatantly pre-meditated one--in and of itself; who he chose was, however. It was a slap in the faces of the other state heads because, daughter or not, he placed some random executive from his administration (who only got the position due to flagrant nepotism in the first place, mind you) in his seat as if to say, "She is comparable to you lot."

      Do you get how insulting that is? Even ignoring the fact that the US' allies such as Merkel, May, and Trudeau made up the majority of the seats, there were also hostile and neutral powerhouses such as Putin, Jinping, and Modi present. Powerhouses who we should be trying to improve relations with, instead of further alienating them and even our allies. :|
      Well thank you, I wouldn't want to invoke the wrath of someone named Dream.
      The US placed a man-child who constantly is undermining and bullying, with less merit than Ivanka as someone that will take a seat with other leaders of the world, now that is insulting. I imagine most world leaders were content when Trump left and Ivanka took his place. And not to sound like a sleazebag or misjudge other leaders but I bet they liked having an attractive women with them. And like you mentioned Trump knows what he is doing, so in a twisted medieval tactic he metaphorically sold his daughter to get placed in a positive position among leaders. This of course is a long reach, but this is what it seemed to me.

      Allies, neutrals, and enemies seems like a comical way to characterise world leaders. Everyone will lookout for themselves when push comes to shove. And it seems naive to think that a world summit is where such things are decided. G20 (or other meetings) is nothing more than a formality, a facade, so gullible people think progress between nations are being made. At very least this seems to be the trend when it comes to developed or strong nations. Smaller nations with strong leadership do stir water when they gather with other nations.

      Comment


        Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
        Well thank you, I wouldn't want to invoke the wrath of someone named Dream.
        The US placed a man-child who constantly is undermining and bullying, with less merit than Ivanka as someone that will take a seat with other leaders of the world, now that is insulting. I imagine most world leaders were content when Trump left and Ivanka took his place. And not to sound like a sleazebag or misjudge other leaders but I bet they liked having an attractive women with them. And like you mentioned Trump knows what he is doing, so in a twisted medieval tactic he metaphorically sold his daughter to get placed in a positive position among leaders. This of course is a long reach, but this is what it seemed to me.

        Allies, neutrals, and enemies seems like a comical way to characterise world leaders. Everyone will lookout for themselves when push comes to shove. And it seems naive to think that a world summit is where such things are decided. G20 (or other meetings) is nothing more than a formality, a facade, so gullible people think progress between nations are being made. At very least this seems to be the trend when it comes to developed or strong nations. Smaller nations with strong leadership do stir water when they gather with other nations.
        You're not even a whole number, so easy on the judgey, huh? :^)

        Man-child or not, Trump's the legally elected PotUSoA. Whether it was by the 1% and (stupid-ass) Middle America or by Vladimir Putin still remains to be seen, but it is what it is. Your feelings of distaste towards him and lust towards his averageish daughter don't change facts and the fact is that he made an egregious error, even by his standards (or the lack thereof). Furthermore, LOL @ you for comparing that sniveling man-child to other heads of state. While such a tactic, if that's even what it was, would undoubtedly work on him, the others have enough gravitas for it to be painfully impotent. I'm sorry.

        I do more or less agree with the second part, however. The summit is decidedly a facade... but an important one, nonetheless. You inadvertently learn where everyone stands, at least for that calendar year. And while all countries are inherently self-serving, they'll generally continue to stand with the US until/unless China completes its development. In which case, our "allies"--particularly regional ones--will have a sudden change of heart.
        Last edited by Oneiros; July 10th, 2017, 11:09 PM.

        Comment


          Russia is back in the story and this time there is an email chain between Trump Jr and Russia officials.

          https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/u...l-clinton.html

          Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
          I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

          Comment


            Originally posted by Dream View Post

            You're not even a whole number, so easy on the judgey, huh? :^)

            Man-child or not, Trump's the legally elected PotUSoA. Whether it was by the 1% and (stupid-ass) Middle America or by Vladimir Putin still remains to be seen, but it is what it is. Your feelings of distaste towards him and lust towards his averageish daughter don't change facts and the fact is that he made an egregious error, even by his standards (or the lack thereof). Furthermore, LOL @ you for comparing that sniveling man-child to other heads of state. While such a tactic, if that's even what it was, would undoubtedly work on him, the others have enough gravitas for it to be painfully impotent. I'm sorry.

            I do more or less agree with the second part, however. The summit is decidedly a facade... but an important one, nonetheless. You inadvertently learn where everyone stands, at least for that calendar year. And while all countries are inherently self-serving, they'll generally continue to stand with the US until/unless China completes its development. In which case, our "allies"--particularly regional ones--will have a sudden change of heart.
            You're going to hit me below the belt so soon, okay.

            It might have been an error but nobody cares. You made it seem like it was a big deal when it is not. People hate DT for his arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, etc, but they don't hate his daughter. Boiling this down to human nature and putting politics aside, other leaders were probably happy to see Donald leave, even if it was for a second. I don't think it's a good idea to criticize Donald for everything he does. It just makes people that do like him get defense. Instead of them being receptive to genuine criticism they'll just bloke it thinking of the times Donald was scrutinized for walking the wrong way.

            Everyone stands where they have done for the past few decades. Even with the USA backing out of one of the most historical agreements of all human history, they will still follow the USA. Like you said. But will they follow China? That's hard to say. China will undoubtedly be the next world leader, but their power won't be as noticeable as the USA had when other countries were in ruins (WW2), but this is besides the point. Point is these meetings are useless since everyone goes into these meetings already having an agenda/point of view.

            Comment


              So members of the Trump campaign knew the russian was actively trying to help Trump and undermine Clinton and met with a russian state attorney to gain that 'highly sensitive' information. Then lied about it multiple times and didnt disclose the meeting when being vetted for security clearance.

              people are currently speculating that the information russia tried to give Trump jr was related to the podesta emails.

              nothing illegal(yet) , but holy crap these guys are lazy
              Last edited by -Person-; July 11th, 2017, 09:12 PM.

              Comment


                Originally posted by -Person- View Post
                So members of the Trump campaign knew the russian was actively trying to help Trump and undermine Clinton and met with a russian state attorney to gain that 'highly sensitive' information. Then lied about it multiple times and didnt disclose the meeting when being vetted for security clearance.

                people are currently speculating that the information russia tried to give Trump jr was related to the podesta emails.

                nothing illegal(yet) , but holy crap these guys are lazy
                been waiting for anything illegal to show up for this entire time now. So far the most we have is deplorable statements and actions that are unethical in an unofficial sense and as such don't discredit Trump's election as president. However I don't really need this investigation to tell me Trump is a scumbag.... we already knew that before he announced his bid for president. which is the reason I come off as uncaring about this story. I only voiced interest back when Shob was showing that there could actually be something to move on before it turned out to be a whole lot of nothing until further notice.

                Comment


                  Not an American (actually a South American, but whatever we all know North America is True America anyway), but I wish to know more about living in Trump's United States if possible.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Kouhai View Post
                    Not an American (actually a South American, but whatever we all know North America is True America anyway), but I wish to know more about living in Trump's United States if possible.
                    Lots of embarrassment, a little regret, and a whole lot of alcohol.

                    Sort of like the first time you have sex, actually.Just a lot less fun.

                    Comment


                    • Kanzentai
                      Kanzentai commented
                      Editing a comment
                      That's not good. Not good at all. Any hope for the months to come?

                    • Cid
                      Cid commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Nope. Probably not.

                    Originally posted by #83.6666666667 View Post
                    You're going to hit me below the belt so soon, okay.

                    It might have been an error but nobody cares. You made it seem like it was a big deal when it is not. People hate DT for his arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, etc, but they don't hate his daughter. Boiling this down to human nature and putting politics aside, other leaders were probably happy to see Donald leave, even if it was for a second. I don't think it's a good idea to criticize Donald for everything he does. It just makes people that do like him get defense. Instead of them being receptive to genuine criticism they'll just bloke it thinking of the times Donald was scrutinized for walking the wrong way.

                    Everyone stands where they have done for the past few decades. Even with the USA backing out of one of the most historical agreements of all human history, they will still follow the USA. Like you said. But will they follow China? That's hard to say. China will undoubtedly be the next world leader, but their power won't be as noticeable as the USA had when other countries were in ruins (WW2), but this is besides the point. Point is these meetings are useless since everyone goes into these meetings already having an agenda/point of view.


                    Actually, people hate his family by proxy as well, which is why Nordstrom stopped carrying Ivanka's brand after his ascension to czar president, lol. And funnily enough, I've called people out in this very thread myself for bitching when Trump so much as sneezed a certain way. People tend to focus on the petty bullshit instead of his actual crimes, which are numerous enough as is. What he did with Ivanka wasn't, however; it was a symbolic "America, fuck yeah & the rest of y'all (allies included) ain't shit" was what it was. Again, the purpose was/should have been to hopefully keep trade open with our allies/"allies"--not give them yet another reason to turn to other parties...

                    As long as they're the primary source of the mass-production of dirt-cheap products, China will retain global influence. Maybe not on the level of the US in a post-WWII Europe, but that's not really a fair comparison, is it? Consider: If Stalin had been dumb enough to accept the US' offer of monetary relief, the Soviet Union would've never reached the heights that it did, which means that their nuclear program might've not rivaled the US', which means the US would've been the sole nuclear power, which would've somehow been even worse because nobody could keep the US in check in such a world. Glad Stalin was a competent leader. A major asshole, sure, but a highly competent one. Can you imagine Trump having access to nukes without Putin being there to serve as a perpetual deterrent (and vice versa)? Bombs ahoy, amirite?!?
                    Last edited by Oneiros; July 11th, 2017, 11:42 PM.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by J peth View Post

                      been waiting for anything illegal to show up for this entire time now. So far the most we have is deplorable statements and actions that are unethical in an unofficial sense and as such don't discredit Trump's election as president. However I don't really need this investigation to tell me Trump is a scumbag.... we already knew that before he announced his bid for president. which is the reason I come off as uncaring about this story. I only voiced interest back when Shob was showing that there could actually be something to move on before it turned out to be a whole lot of nothing until further notice.
                      Its strong circumstantial evidence of guilt where you keep having instance after instance after instance of selective amnesia for all-things-related-to-meetings-with-the-Russians from Trump officials.

                      Where they keep certifying that they've made full and complete disclosures of all their contacts, and everything they spoke about.

                      ...And they keep getting caught lying.

                      ...And they keep going back and changing their story and moving the goal post with each new previously undisclosed meeting that gets uncovered by investigators--after and only after the previous set of lies has been invalidated.

                      First it was: "The Russians didn't interfere in the election. Fake New."

                      Then it was: "The Russians interfered because they respect Trump and don't like Hillary, but the collusion story is bogus. No one from our Team ever met with the Russians. Fake News."

                      Then it was: "...well there were meetings with the Russians. Yes. We forgot about those meetings with the Russians. But we only spoke about building a better relationship between our countries; never about the election or Russian interference. No collusion. Fake news."

                      Then (with the initial release of this story) it was: "...well we DID meet with a Russian national who told us she had damaging information on Hillary. But we thought we were going into a meeting about international adoptions; we weren't actually TRYING to get damaging information from the Russians. No collusion. Fake news.

                      Then the email chain came out showing everyone was advised ahead of the meeting--the purpose of the meeting was to provide the Trump campaign with damaging information on Hillary. And within 24 hours the story changed to: "...well we DID know going in that the purpose of the meeting was to get damaging information on Hillary. But thats not a crime and we didn't actually GET any damaging information; we were swindled. And oh--by the way--President Trump--knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about this meeting. His son and son-in-law and former campaign manager did this all on their own without telling him and he had no idea this meeting was taking place in Trump Tower.

                      Its part of a pattern.

                      This is not the behavior of persons who are confident that this is a politically motivated with-hunt, and that they will be completely exonerated if everything is out-in-the-open and investigators get all the facts of the matter.

                      This is what a cover up of organized crime looks like.

                      I wouldn't go so far, as some have suggested, to say this is now the "Smoking gun" that the prosecution has been looking for.

                      But Charles Krauthammer (a conservative commentator at FOX News who usually defends the Trump White House from these kinds of headlines) had a pretty good take on t, and explanation why this Trump Jr. thing is now an important piece of the narrative:

                      http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...e-for-trump-jr

                      "They were saying for six months, we didn't do it, there's no evidence that we did it. Now they're saying, yeah we did it, but it wasn't so bad...the denial of collusion is very weak right now.

                      The story they are telling today is not the story they have been telling for the last six months. And it changed only because yet another investigative leak to the press exposed the story they were previously telling as false.

                      Again; this is the behavior of persons up to their eyeballs in full blown cover-ups.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                        Its strong circumstantial evidence of guilt where you keep having instance after instance after instance of selective amnesia for all-things-related-to-meetings-with-the-Russians from Trump officials.

                        Where they keep certifying that they've made full and complete disclosures of all their contacts, and everything they spoke about.

                        ...And they keep getting caught lying.

                        ...And they keep going back and changing their story and moving the goal post with each new previously undisclosed meeting that gets uncovered by investigators--after and only after the previous set of lies has been invalidated.

                        First it was: "The Russians didn't interfere in the election. Fake New."

                        Then it was: "The Russians interfered because they respect Trump and don't like Hillary, but the collusion story is bogus. No one from our Team ever met with the Russians. Fake News."

                        Then it was: "...well there were meetings with the Russians. Yes. We forgot about those meetings with the Russians. But we only spoke about building a better relationship between our countries; never about the election or Russian interference. No collusion. Fake news."

                        Then (with the initial release of this story) it was: "...well we DID meet with a Russian national who told us she had damaging information on Hillary. But we thought we were going into a meeting about international adoptions; we weren't actually TRYING to get damaging information from the Russians. No collusion. Fake news.

                        Then the email chain came out showing everyone was advised ahead of the meeting--the purpose of the meeting was to provide the Trump campaign with damaging information on Hillary. And within 24 hours the story changed to: "...well we DID know going in that the purpose of the meeting was to get damaging information on Hillary. But thats not a crime and we didn't actually GET any damaging information; we were swindled. And oh--by the way--President Trump--knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about this meeting. His son and son-in-law and former campaign manager did this all on their own without telling him and he had no idea this meeting was taking place in Trump Tower.

                        Its part of a pattern.

                        This is not the behavior of persons who are confident that this is a politically motivated with-hunt, and that they will be completely exonerated if everything is out-in-the-open and investigators get all the facts of the matter.

                        This is what a cover up of organized crime looks like.

                        I wouldn't go so far, as some have suggested, to say this is now the "Smoking gun" that the prosecution has been looking for.

                        But Charles Krauthammer (a conservative commentator at FOX News who usually defends the Trump White House from these kinds of headlines) had a pretty good take on t, and explanation why this Trump Jr. thing is now an important piece of the narrative:

                        http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...e-for-trump-jr

                        "They were saying for six months, we didn't do it, there's no evidence that we did it. Now they're saying, yeah we did it, but it wasn't so bad...the denial of collusion is very weak right now.

                        The story they are telling today is not the story they have been telling for the last six months. And it changed only because yet another investigative leak to the press exposed the story they were previously telling as false.

                        Again; this is the behavior of persons up to their eyeballs in full blown cover-ups.
                        So again we have enough to warrant an investigation, but not enough yet to cry out for impeachment.

                        So I'll continue to wait.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by J peth View Post

                          So again we have enough to warrant an investigation, but not enough yet to cry out for impeachment.

                          So I'll continue to wait.
                          So when undeniable evidence surfaces will you admit you were wrong?

                          Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                          I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                            So when undeniable evidence surfaces will you admit you were wrong?
                            Peth isnt saying he thinks that trump and co. are innocent, just that he's not gonna jump to conclusions yet.


                            Also the popstar,his did and his weird manager are all mentioned in the pee pee dossier.
                            Last edited by -Person-; July 12th, 2017, 11:22 PM.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Kajin_Style View Post

                              So when undeniable evidence surfaces will you admit you were wrong?
                              Just because I am consistent in my beliefs of 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't mean that I'm somehow wrong here. I've never said that Trump has assuredly not done anything criminal or anything like that. I've been pressing for hard facts to accuse him on. So far most of it has just been the blustering rage of news organizations.

                              Every time this comes up I ask for one thing, solid evidence. And even Shob admits that so far there isn't any, there's cause to investigate, which I don't recall ever stating there wasn't. however I do remember simply saying we shouldn't impeach him yet or that at least there's not enough to impeach him as it stands.

                              However I have stated that it is silly that we're pissed off at the russians for doing what the US does on a regular basis. I'm not saying we don't punish Russia, but I'm saying that if you push for the punishment of Russia for it's actions if you're to stay consistent and not be a hypocrite you need to also be outraged and push for the US to, if nothing else, cease meddling in the politics of other countries.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by J peth View Post

                                Just because I am consistent in my beliefs of 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't mean that I'm somehow wrong here. I've never said that Trump has assuredly not done anything criminal or anything like that. I've been pressing for hard facts to accuse him on. So far most of it has just been the blustering rage of news organizations.
                                You see the stonewalling and the stalling to stop the facts from getting out though, right?

                                There's "innocent until proven gulity."

                                And then there's "boy--these guys are sure acting guilty. What are they all trying to hide if there's no proof-of-guilt?"
                                Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; July 13th, 2017, 01:41 PM.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Post-Crisis Shob View Post

                                  You see the stonewalling and the stalling to stop the facts from getting out though, right?

                                  There's "innocent until proven gulity."

                                  And then there's "boy--these guys are sure acting guilty. What are they all trying to hide if there's no proof-of-guilt?"
                                  oh wowee what a unique situation we're in, such new things in politicks lol
                                  Originally posted by Snap
                                  "man you always know what to get me for my birthday, you really are a nigger"

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Sheko View Post

                                    oh wowee what a unique situation we're in, such new things in politicks lol
                                    Hey. I'll be fair about it.

                                    Hillary did the same fucking thing with the email investigation. And it was evident then from the way she was behaving that for all the ever-shifting denials and attacks on right-wing media and complaints that she was being treated so unfairly--she was guilty as sin.
                                    Last edited by Post-Crisis Shob; July 13th, 2017, 02:32 PM.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by J peth View Post

                                      Just because I am consistent in my beliefs of 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't mean that I'm somehow wrong here. I've never said that Trump has assuredly not done anything criminal or anything like that. I've been pressing for hard facts to accuse him on. So far most of it has just been the blustering rage of news organizations.

                                      Every time this comes up I ask for one thing, solid evidence. And even Shob admits that so far there isn't any, there's cause to investigate, which I don't recall ever stating there wasn't. however I do remember simply saying we shouldn't impeach him yet or that at least there's not enough to impeach him as it stands.

                                      However I have stated that it is silly that we're pissed off at the russians for doing what the US does on a regular basis. I'm not saying we don't punish Russia, but I'm saying that if you push for the punishment of Russia for it's actions if you're to stay consistent and not be a hypocrite you need to also be outraged and push for the US to, if nothing else, cease meddling in the politics of other countries.

                                      I would agree if this wasn't the presidency we are talking about. All the circumstantial evidence; the Russia meetings; people resigning over it; selective memory, etc. Everything that Shob has said to you earlier with how they keep moving the goal posts back. They are lying, again and again. What do they have to hide? Why all the secrecy and cover ups?

                                      Then there's how Trump is just a walking contradiction. Literally doing the things he said he wasn't going to do and hurting the people he claimed he was going to support and help. I didn't know how much I despise people contradicting themselves until I saw him because if I could at least predict his behavior I wouldn't be so annoyed but when we got him sending missiles into the Middle East because a picture touched his heart, what the actual fuck.

                                      As for the solid evidence it is only a stone throws away to connect the people Trump Jr. met with and the hackers that hacked the DNC. You already got heads of multiple intelligence agencies saying it was Russia. I don't know how much more "evidence" you need or what you count as "solid evidence." While yes in the past there was a lot questionable things they done like selectively forgetting the meetings they had with Russia officials this email chain is far more solid and damning than the rest. It literally says in the emails this "...is apart of the Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump." You can go read his tweets yourself.

                                      Now they claim the meeting was about adoptions and not about Hilary even though the email title is "Re: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential." But you know what.. fine we'll go with that story and say there is no evidence. Until in another week or two proof starts surfacing that the meeting wasn't about adoptions and it was about Clinton instead. Would you believe it then? Or is Trump still innocent because it was his people who colluded and not him himself?

                                      That will be the next line of defense they throw at us before they finally start claiming it isn't illegal. At that point how much more in denial are people going to be?


                                      Originally posted by Date Rape Prophet
                                      I don't believe in infallibility of scripture

                                      Comment


                                        Trump is guilty, there's no denying that at this point. The only questions are "what is he guilty of?", "is it illegal?", and "is it enough to warrant impeachment?" and that's why we're investigating all of this.

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